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Main - Archived forums - Custom SMG levels - SMG Hacking for Me Right Now [Warning:] [Rant] New reply

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cosmological
Posted on 12-07-14 03:39 PM Link | #52432
Hello everyone, I don’t really want to make this post but something’s been bothering me for a long time now.

First off I want to make it clear that the stuff I say in this post should not be taken personally to any members. This is just me getting something that’s been annoying me off of my shoulders. Usually I don’t try to name people by name, but this time I think I have to.

Secondly I want to say that this doesn’t go for just me. I am aware of plenty of others who are in similar states but with slightly different specifics. I’m just going to tell my part of the story because I know it the best and don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth.


SMG Hacking for Me Right Now


Well I joined the SMG hacking scene all the way back in February 2011. Ever since I’ve been here I think that I’ve been pushing the quality of designs to new levels. In fact on my first day I made a pretty big change in the scene by making the first deign with complete visuals. I have to admit that it wasn’t the best design, like any first design should be, but at least it changed something in the scene. After I did that I learned Google Sketch-up to make my next designs, which became the first fully 3D Designed level in the scene. Although afterwards my designs weren’t changing anything about the scene after that for a while at least I kept trying and trying to make my designs better until I reached the limit of designs that I considered good with just the objects available to me. Fortunately not that long after I had reached that limit we gained the ability to make custom models and import them. I figured that my skills in Google Sketch-up we no longer good enough for the scene so I learned to use Blender and created one of the first custom planets and then the first fully custom galaxy, Rolling Halfpipe, which ended up never getting finished.

After that, we unfortunately have had a severe lack of texturers, especially when Glem left. So to push the scene along with the best quality of models I learned how to UV texture. Now I’d say that the SMG hacking scene at its best is at the same quality of Nintendo.

So let me get to the rant section of this post(the rest of the post). Can I have a little credit please?! Everything I’ve done for the past 2 years has gotten the same response “good job cosmo”, “nice model cosmo”. I want a little more than that. You have no clue how much those responses aggravate me. Its gotten me thinking that why should I work hard on the levels if I get the same fucking responses as I’ve always gotten. It just shows me that there isn’t really any reason to expand my skill set and keep trying to improve my work, if I’m not getting anything more out of it. I’ll use the most recent case of this as my example.

Take Bob-Omb Battlefield. This is a level that I’ve spent over 30 hours on; making it, tearing it apart, designing it, and looking at how to keep it the same while at the same time making it new and better. It’s an incredibly difficult process. Let me go look at the responses I’ve gotten for my hard work right now.

The model is very nice.

Looks very nice!


I absolutely hate this. It just aggravates me so much. I sure hope it looks nice and I’m aware that it looks nice or else I wouldn’t have posted it. There is plenty of stuff I’ve just thrown out because it wasn’t up to my standard, see my old Toxic Terror and Coastline Cavern models for examples. All I want is more.

These posts aggravate me so much that I miss a post that I would have actually liked to respond to.

Posted by PaperplateismGuy
Wow, how long did it take to make that?


To answer your actual question, which is something I enjoy. It took me 30 hours. I’m sorry I couldn’t get to you sooner. That is a prime example of something I like to see. A question that would get me involved in the conversation. Ask me how I did something, I like explaining my work because at the least someone could learn and make something just as good. A closed remark just doesn’t help me and turns me away from the conversation. Then we can get to the thing that aggravates me even more.

Very nice job Glem!


I’m not Glem. I wouldn’t be upset if this hadn’t happened before. At least take the time to know who did what you are commenting on. I don’t want false praise for anyone. If someone gave me credit for something I didn’t do I would make sure to correct that person’s misconception.

Okay. This is the part of the post I don’t want to write but the events of today have essentially forced me to. There has been a recent member who has been doing a lot of stuff for the SMG hacking scene. This member is Galaxy Hacker. First I’d like to commend him for doing all that he’s done and actually doing stuff.

But secondly I’d like to say that his method of working is completely different than mine. If I’m trying to do something new I’m not going to post every single thing I do unless it’s something new. Take my Flip Swap Level. I started the thread when I had significant progress on the level and didn’t post again until I was done with the level or answering any questions. I’m not going to make threads for something that has already been done. This is one of the reasons that I have such a small post count. I don’t like posting unless it’s something new and good.

A perfect example of a thread that pissed me off so much was the Changing Backgrounds thread. In my opinion its along the lines of “Wow I can delete and add an object in Whitehole”. It wasn’t really revolutionary in my opinion, which is why I didn’t post anything there because I didn’t think I could control myself and stick with my beliefs that admins shouldn’t be abusive to members. Then I saw the next post which was a paragraph of complete praise and how revolutionary it was. This post by the way was probably longer than all of the praise I’ve ever gotten for all of my works combined. All of the “nice job cosmo” add up surprising slowly. My urge to completely rip apart that thread was so great and it took so much self-restraint to not. Fortunately Staple Butter came in and saved the day with his wonderful post. I still remember how relieved I felt when SB posted it. http://kuribo64.net/?page=thread&id=1786&from=20#post50646
Despite what SB said, the response to that post wasn’t the best for me.

As for SMG2.5's modellers and such...I've been unable to find words to describe that stuff. So, it's not that it hasn't been praised as such, it's that it transcends my vocabulary. I don't know if I'm alone in that or not.


I don’t need fucking big words to describe my stuff. I just want more specifics to know that people have spent time to look at the model and questions so others can improve their designing, modeling or texturing abilities. I just want the best for the scene. Describing the models and textures of the work of the SMG2.5 people can be done in simple language.

And the last part of my rant is the current state of custom levels in SMG hacking. The scene has drastically changed since I’ve been here but the quality of levels hasn’t really changed. Levels are still a mismatch of blocks with no consistent theme. Even when I worked with just Nintendo blocks I tried to keep a theme to my levels and make them polished. Although I see no problem with having a pretty jumbled first level I just want to see improvements in one’s designing and level quality. In fact there is a new level which tipped me over the edge today that caused me to start writing this post.

With that new level, it was described as perfect. I didn’t think it was at all. It was a nice showoff that hacking SMG1 is possible and I’m glad the creator says that it isn’t perfect. But please, have some discretion when saying something is perfect or not. If a mismatch mess of blocks is considered perfect, then I’ve got plenty of time to crank out some “perfect” levels. I still have 4 designs from back before we started making custom models for levels that I could sit down and create in Whitehole. So why don’t I do that? It’s because I feel as if I could do a lot more for pushing the scene forward with that time. Instead of spending 24 hours making a couple levels with nothing new, I could instead work on something new like scrolling textures. This is exactly what I’ll do when I have spare time to work on Coastline Cavern.

Why don’t I do the whole process of making a galaxy myself? Because I think that my time could be spent better on other topics. I’m perfectly able to learn how to import models and use the software but why would I want to do that when there are other perfectly competent people on the forum who I can ship the process off to while I work on texturing or modeling some other stuff.

Again I’m sorry for the people who I quoted or talked about in this post. Please don’t take it personally because I don’t mean to personally affect you. I just wanted to provide how I feel about the SMG hacking scene right now.

Also please provide constructive replies to this post. I will restrict your access to this board if you respond “nice post cosmo” and nothing else.

____________________
Long live the new Kuribo64

MercuryPenny
Posted on 12-07-14 03:48 PM Link | #52433
I can totally see your frustration here. "GYUH IT LOOKS KOOL BRO" is not a good answer to something you just worked for a straight day on.

And how long did it take you to make that post?

SquidEmpress
Posted on 12-07-14 03:58 PM Link | #52436
I hope I'm not being offensive in any way as I'm trying to provide constructive criticism, but to be honest, I feel that the moderation of post quality hasn't been enforced enough when it should be. Yeah, I could report posts but I, and probably others too, personally feel that there comes a time when reporting posts just gets all whiny. For example, reporting every single damn borderline bad post and obvious bad post can be annoying. But, if post quality is all crappy because people are begin whiny and unintelligent and stuff, then I think a moderator should step in to correct the problem so that everyone will see how they should be posting. Yeah, I understand that people cannot be here 24/7 making sure everything is going okay, but sometimes, problems go unfixed for a while and threads may even become derailed into a hopeless mess.

____________________
Super Mario LOLand

Thanks to Tierage for helping to port my Acmlmboard 2.5 layout to Acmlmboard 2.064!


NWPlayer123
Posted on 12-07-14 04:03 PM Link | #52437
Posted by HolyRomanEmperor
I hope I'm not being offensive in any way as I'm trying to provide constructive criticism, but to be honest, I feel that the moderation of post quality hasn't been enforced enough when it should be. Yeah, I could report posts but I, and probably others too, personally feel that there comes a time when reporting posts just gets all whiny. For example, reporting every single damn borderline bad post and obvious bad post can be annoying. But, if post quality is all crappy because people are begin whiny and unintelligent and stuff, then I think a moderator should step in to correct the problem so that everyone will see how they should be posting. Yeah, I understand that people cannot be here 24/7 making sure everything is going okay, but sometimes, problems go unfixed for a while and threads may even become derailed into a hopeless mess.

Um, what? This has nothing to do with post quality, it has to do with feedback (or the lack thereof).

____________________
"I hate playing musical chats" ~ Quote of the month

SquidEmpress
Posted on 12-07-14 04:07 PM (rev. 2 of 12-07-14 04:08 PM) Link | #52438
Posted by NWPlayer123
Posted by HolyRomanEmperor
I hope I'm not being offensive in any way as I'm trying to provide constructive criticism, but to be honest, I feel that the moderation of post quality hasn't been enforced enough when it should be. Yeah, I could report posts but I, and probably others too, personally feel that there comes a time when reporting posts just gets all whiny. For example, reporting every single damn borderline bad post and obvious bad post can be annoying. But, if post quality is all crappy because people are begin whiny and unintelligent and stuff, then I think a moderator should step in to correct the problem so that everyone will see how they should be posting. Yeah, I understand that people cannot be here 24/7 making sure everything is going okay, but sometimes, problems go unfixed for a while and threads may even become derailed into a hopeless mess.

Um, what? This has nothing to do with post quality, it has to do with feedback (or the lack thereof).


Why, of course. But in general, lack of feedback and low post quality go together. For example, "Cool model!" isn't that great of feedback when you've spent a long time working on a model. But "Looks pretty nice so far. How long did it take you to make that model? If you don't mind, I suggest doing blah blah blah and adding blah blah blah to make the model look nicer so that blah blah blah will be fun to explore in-game." is very in-depth feedback that sparks conversation as cosmo said.

____________________
Super Mario LOLand

Thanks to Tierage for helping to port my Acmlmboard 2.5 layout to Acmlmboard 2.064!


KoopaTroopaMan
Posted on 12-07-14 04:25 PM Link | #52441
Yeah I also feel kinda the same of the "Wow nice!" post and not something else. Also, sorry for doing my simple Changed Backgrounds pack that got so much praise. You should have to get that praise instead. Even more. You have done much cooler things like the Bob-Omb Battlefield model, the lava model, Toxic Terror model etc.
I promise, I got so impressed when I saw this. I can't describe it. They was so fantastic and good made. I could never ever do that myself. They look like the exactly was made by Nintendo. You are the best modeller I've ever seen. I'm serious.

Also, I don't post every single thing I do. I've done other things that I haven't released. I hack SMG as my best hobby to make fun and cool things. Well I don't want to not release something cool I've made. A "SMG hacks" section would also be good.

So is it something I can do to make you glad?

Jesse
Posted on 12-07-14 05:15 PM Link | #52446
When I made the thread for scrolling textures I expected people like NWPlayer(no offence) to say that it was easy to do and that a thread wouldn't be necessary. Instead there was a explosion of joy, Even you commented so that would mean I really achieved something in the smg hacking scene. Although I said it was easy to do and I literately only changed a few bytes, nobody ever wondered to do it before. So I am in anyway glad that I gave a boost and motivation for people.

I don't know if I post a lot of "good job" posts. But this might come due to smwcentral. If you give critic there people will be upsad and will see you as a bad person and ask you for proof if you can do it better. as for your bob-omb battle field model, I actually am surprised you did 30 hours about that. This is why I didn't posted anything because see how big of a cunt I look when saying that. I actually have a lot of critic towards your model but I didn't want to say anything about it.

As for my own modelling and trying to make better models its not really what people say. I have a huge designing problem. I cannot make any level because I don't have reference and I can't draw. So by that I actually have respect for peoples designs instead of models, since I have a hard time designing myself. I wish I could learn somewhere how to design a proper level but I can google till I am death, but no tutorials on how to design a Level.

TheSpeedyMouse
Posted on 12-07-14 05:21 PM Link | #52447
When I first joined Kuribo64 I said a mediocre level made by Rainbow Mario (Now Galaxy Hacker) was amazing. I said this because I had just joined and I didn't really know yet what was possible. Usually I try to add constructive criticism or something else beside "good job" when I post something, which is why I was one of the last people to say "Good job!" about your Bob-Omb model because I couldn't think of what else to say. Sorry I ended up saying something generic and unhelpful. In the future I will try to give advice, ask a question, or something!

Arisotura
Posted on 12-07-14 05:25 PM Link | #52448
Posted by HolyRomanEmperor
I hope I'm not being offensive in any way as I'm trying to provide constructive criticism, but to be honest, I feel that the moderation of post quality hasn't been enforced enough when it should be. Yeah, I could report posts but I, and probably others too, personally feel that there comes a time when reporting posts just gets all whiny. For example, reporting every single damn borderline bad post and obvious bad post can be annoying. But, if post quality is all crappy because people are begin whiny and unintelligent and stuff, then I think a moderator should step in to correct the problem so that everyone will see how they should be posting. Yeah, I understand that people cannot be here 24/7 making sure everything is going okay, but sometimes, problems go unfixed for a while and threads may even become derailed into a hopeless mess.

I don't have infinite time on my hands, I can't be watching every new post, you realize.

It's always better to report bad posts to me.

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Spacey
Posted on 12-07-14 05:54 PM Link | #52450
I sort of have the same feeling about the "Wow nice work!" comments. While it can be nice every once in a while I much prefer constructive criticism than compliments. Im perfectly fine with someone shitting all over my work as long as they tell me why so I can make it better next time and make better levels. For instance, When I first made a thread about bit block (which is still being worked on, just very, very, slowly) I had some comments like "Cool!" and "awesome!" but I got a comment from rean explaining how it needed more platforming which was great because now I know what I need to get better at and I can fix it and get better at designing. Even If I become an amazing level designer I still want to get better because its always feels great to surpass your previous work. So yeah, I get how you feel about the "NIce work!" posts, they can get annoying at times.

____________________
Hacking LM and trying to not suck. Weeeeeeee.

Splitwirez
Posted on 12-07-14 06:12 PM Link | #52452
Posted by cosmological
As for SMG2.5's modellers and such...I've been unable to find words to describe that stuff. So, it's not that it hasn't been praised as such, it's that it transcends my vocabulary. I don't know if I'm alone in that or not.


I don’t need fucking big words to describe my stuff. I just want more specifics to know that people have spent time to look at the model and questions so others can improve their designing, modeling or texturing abilities. I just want the best for the scene. Describing the models and textures of the work of the SMG2.5 people can be done in simple language

[deadserious][notsarcasm][genuineapology]I'm sorry for not knowing how to express my opinions.[/genuineapology][/notsarcasm][/deadserious]



How do you typically go about starting a model? My methods typically don't end well, so I'd like to know how you do it. No, that isn't a responsive inquiry, I've been wanting to ask for a while now, but I was concerned about provoking flak regarding trade secrets and the like. Now I know that my concern was unwarranted, so now I'm asking.

NWPlayer123
Posted on 12-07-14 07:06 PM Link | #52453
Posted by jjesss064
When I made the thread for scrolling textures I expected people like NWPlayer(no offence) to say that it was easy to do and that a thread wouldn't be necessary. Instead there was a explosion of joy, Even you commented so that would mean I really achieved something in the smg hacking scene. Although I said it was easy to do and I literately only changed a few bytes, nobody ever wondered to do it before. So I am in anyway glad that I gave a boost and motivation for people.

Easy =/= Useful. Yes, it's easy to figure out using common sense/guessing (IE looking at the other animation formats), but that doesn't mean it isn't still useful to post stuff like that.

____________________
"I hate playing musical chats" ~ Quote of the month

shibboleet
Posted on 12-07-14 07:25 PM (rev. 2 of 12-07-14 07:27 PM) Link | #52456
Even I'm like this. People here like to show off cool stuff, but some show off really dumb stuff that isn't too interesting to people.

Something like jesse's scrolling textures, cool. But a thread about copypasting and renaming little things and calling it cool is alright...? It isn't, there is nothing interesting about it. It's just showing that somebody can actually rename things. But, it's better than having nobody on the scene at all. In my honest opinion, GalaxyHacker and Aurum both have large potential in this scene. They're looking into stuff that we never bothered to touch (except for assembly, that's our job ;) ) and helping others, as we do the bigger stuff and make that easier. It's cool where it's gotten in the past couple of months. With Plumber's Way, NMG, (and GalaxyHacker's hack, which I know the name of, but not saying it) and SMG2.5 will showoff how cool of a community we really can fucking be.

On cosmological's reason, I have to agree as well, but it kinda sounds as if somebody is screaming 'hey give me attention', but what wrongdoes that statement is that his work is underrated.


____________________
a

cosmological
Posted on 12-07-14 07:33 PM Link | #52459
Thank you guys so much for posting constructive feedback I'm actually really happy to see the conversation that can go on with this thread. Let's answer the questions starting from the beginning.

To MercuryPenny:
The post took around 2 and a half hours to write. Its 1712 words long. Not the most time I've spent on a post but still a substantial one. I just wish I could write my English essays that fast.


To GalaxyHacker:
I'm glad you agree with the fact that the "Wow nice!" comments are unhelpful. Also don't feel bad about your Changed Backgrounds getting praise its not your fault and to be honest I thought it was a pretty cool effect.

In my post I didn't mean to say you shouldn't release stuff, I just mean that that isn't my policy for releasing stuff. You can do stuff your own way. Also what exactly do you mean by a "SMG Hacks" section?

Something that you could do to make me glad would be to spend a little extra time to work to work on a galaxy with a well thought out theme and design that looks and plays nice. If you could work a new experiment of yours into it that would be even better. You definitely have the ability to make a really nice level.


To Jesse:
Yeah, I'm still super excited about scrolling textures. It will automatically make a huge increase for the quality of White-Hot, Toxic Terror and Coastline Cavern.

Don't worry about hurting my feelings in a post. I'd rather have the truth than lies and I can handle the truth. All I want to do is get better. Also what are some of the criticisms for my Bob-Omb Battlefield model? I might not be able to make all of the changes just due to time constraints but I'll look into them.

Unfortunately its really difficult to teach the designing process. If it were so easy I would have made a massive thread about it a while ago. Everyone's just so different that they just need to find what works for them.


To Spacey:
I absolutely know how you feel about wanting to do better than you have before. And as I said for GalaxyHacker I'm glad you feel the same way about the "Nice Work!" posts.


To Splitwirez:
Well there are really two ways to start on a model. One is to have a nice drawing in front of you so you know what you are trying to create. There is also the really weird way that I go about making new models which is when I'm away from the computer I open blender in my mind and go about the process of making a model thinking about how to do what stuff and how to do it with Blender. I don't recommend that method of course unless you have a deep knowledge of how Blender works and a really solid mental design.

Also there is no such thing as a trade secret. I want everyone to work as efficiently as possible because wasted time is useless, and I honestly don't care if someone overtakes me in quality for levels.


As a nice aside. Now that I have a new computer I might start working on a Blender tutorial series specifically for use with SMG Hacking. All I need is a good mic for it and to see if anyone has interest in something like that.


____________________
Long live the new Kuribo64

Splitwirez
Posted on 12-07-14 09:29 PM Link | #52462
Posted by cosmological
Well there are really two ways to start on a model. One is to have a nice drawing in front of you so you know what you are trying to create. There is also the really weird way that I go about making new models which is when I'm away from the computer I open blender in my mind and go about the process of making a model thinking about how to do what stuff and how to do it with Blender. I don't recommend that method of course unless you have a deep knowledge of how Blender works and a really solid mental design.

Also there is no such thing as a trade secret. I want everyone to work as efficiently as possible because wasted time is useless, and I honestly don't care if someone overtakes me in quality for levels.


As a nice aside. Now that I have a new computer I might start working on a Blender tutorial series specifically for use with SMG Hacking. All I need is a good mic for it and to see if anyone has interest in something like that.

Thanks for replying so quickly! I'm tempted to try working from some concept are now. That second way isn't as weird as you might think - I find myself doing that with a modding tool for a certain other game (Spore) quite frequently. I did not expect that. I probably shouldn't do that with Blender, though, as I'm still learning stuff about it all the time.

Relieves me to know that furthering the community is more important to you than keeping your tricks up your sleeve. That's a dignity I wish the people who MAKE these games (Nintendo) had.

I don't know about anyone else here, but if you did Blender tutorials, that would be great! I hope you go through with it.

Spacey
Posted on 12-08-14 05:01 AM Link | #52469
Posted by cosmological
As a nice aside. Now that I have a new computer I might start working on a Blender tutorial series specifically for use with SMG Hacking. All I need is a good mic for it and to see if anyone has interest in something like that.
I Think some blender tutorials would be great! I currently use a combo of maya and 3dsmax for my models but id love to learn blender, not only would it help me with mario galaxy hacking, I could also use it for work with the source engine. That sounds like a wonderful idea!

____________________
Hacking LM and trying to not suck. Weeeeeeee.

KoopaTroopaMan
Posted on 12-08-14 12:12 PM Link | #52478
Posted by cosmological
Also what exactly do you mean by a "SMG Hacks" section?

I mean a forum there you can post your SMG hacks instead of a full custom level. It would be much more organized instead to post everything in General SMG hacking so the hacks and other things get mixed with each other.

Toadario64
Posted on 12-08-14 01:57 PM Link | #52480
Posted by Jesse
But this might come due to smwcentral. If you give critic there people will be upsad and will see you as a bad person and ask you for proof if you can do it better.

What exactly are you pretending to say? Just because 5 or 4 people on smwc can't take criticism doesn't automatically mean the WHOLE Smwcentral members can't.

TheSpeedyMouse
Posted on 12-08-14 03:24 PM Link | #52484
Posted by cosmological
As a nice aside. Now that I have a new computer I might start working on a Blender tutorial series specifically for use with SMG Hacking. All I need is a good mic for it and to see if anyone has interest in something like that.
I would love this! I have actually been trying to learn Blender myself but learning how to use it in a perspective for SMG hacking would be amazing! Maybe I'll actually do something instead of just posting in the gaming section of this forum. :P Actually, I am working on my first custom level at the moment that should hopefully be done sometime this month.

Arisotura
Posted on 12-08-14 03:25 PM Link | #52485
Posted by jjesss064
But this might come due to smwcentral. If you give critic there people will be upsad and will see you as a bad person and ask you for proof if you can do it better.

Uh, this isn't the place to bash SMWCentral or other communities.

I don't know if your buddy Skelux wants a war between SMWC and us or something, but it's not what is going to happen.

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd
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