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Main - Trash - Shit's going down in USA (and everywhere else too) Thread closed

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NintendoFan
Posted on 11-18-16 03:36 AM Link | #79745
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
I don't know, as far as his cabinet appointees seem to look like, we're going to be in a strange, strange world here.

Well, it's not like we can do anything about it at the moment. At least anything rational. >_>

If he's a terrible president, then we'll have to suck it up and vote him out in 2020.

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Marionumber1
Posted on 11-18-16 07:43 AM Link | #79749
If your votes count...

Arisotura
Posted on 11-18-16 07:46 AM Link | #79750
Voting is pointless anyway, it's not how global warming will be resolved, it's not how homeless people will be given home, and so on.

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Marionumber1
Posted on 11-18-16 10:16 AM Link | #79753
Posted by StapleButter
Voting is pointless anyway, it's not how global warming will be resolved, it's not how homeless people will be given home, and so on.


It could be, if the people demanded it and the government properly responded. There's a lot of meaningful public policy that could get passed to mitigate global warming, like a carbon tax and green energy initiatives. Same for housing: the government could ensure nobody was living on the streets if they cared to. Realistically, governments have a much better chance of getting all of this done than individuals. But since the government is captured by corporate interests, it has no desire to.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 11-18-16 08:13 PM Link | #79770
There is also stonewalling because government action for housing would just be derided as socialist.

Arisotura
Posted on 11-22-16 02:38 AM (rev. 2 of 11-22-16 02:38 AM) Link | #79842
the DAPL fight is still going

it's said that police injured over 160 people, using tear gas, rubber bullets, maces, and... water cannons, hosing people despite subzero temperatures. which works as well as you'd guess, several people experienced hypothermia.

another excerpt of police violence

damage inflicted by concussion grenade (warning: gore)


try to tell me that police is here to protect people


same shit in France btw. like here.

the page's in French, but the gist of it is:

* Adama Traoré killed by suffocation by a cop. Police and media lie to hide this fact, pretending Adama died from natural causes.
* Adama's family are unhappy, protest, etc... Truth also leaks through mainstream media, from one of the family members being interviewed.
* State rages.
* Mayor sues said family member for 'slander'.
* Riot police is sent to shut up the protesters. People, including a baby, get gassed. The operation is purely retaliation, and goes as far as tear gas canisters shot through house windows, forcing one family to evacuate their house.
* Lies about protesters using mortars or whatever, are made up to justify the violence. The protesters were peaceful.

basically, police is here to protect the established order and capitalism, not people. police is given monopoly on legal violence. media spread lies to justify police violence, and police come down hard on those who try to spread the truth. (which also happens in the DAPL case, where independent media reporters get arrested)

democracy my ass.

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Marionumber1
Posted on 11-23-16 07:34 PM Link | #79880
The DAPL situation is disgusting. And where the hell is Obama? He has it within his power to cancel the pipeline and stop these police abuses, but instead has decided to let it "play out". This proves not only that he's a corporatist, but that he literally does not value human lives. At this point, nobody should be considering Obama a good president.

On another note, I've been thinking more about why the election was rigged in Trump's favor. It seemed much more likely to be in favor of Hillary, the establishment pick. My current theory is that the election was purposefully rigged to be caught and blamed on Russia, since the media has been trying to paint Trump as a Russian puppet. Discovering this "Russian" attack on our democracy will provide a further rationale for war.

Arisotura
Posted on 11-23-16 08:20 PM Link | #79881
Cancelling the pipeline, when there are still lots of oil to be extracted and sold? ahahahahaha. Capitalism will continue ruining the planet as long as it will exist.

What's more disgusting is that the state/police/media are trying to claim that Sophia was harmed by explosives made by the water protectors, that police didn't use grenades, and other lies.

And that the propaganda machines that spread that kind of disgusting lies are still very effective. It's the same in France. Videos showed protesters throwing shit at cops near a hospital, the media said that the protesters were attacking the hospital. It was a complete and total lie, and the hospital was almost intact, but nethertheless my parents were shocked by "those evil, mindless thugs attacking a hospital".

Said propaganda machines are favorizing the extreme-right parties. Whenever a protest steps out of the allowed frame, violence from protesters is used to depict them as mindless, violent thugs who just want to destroy everything (while violence from police is mostly ignored). The resulting propaganda will scare those who are watching, making them want more security and police.

Does it mean violence is bad? Nope. They don't even need violence from protesters to make their propaganda. The COP21 protests were a perfect example. State of emergency was used to forbid them, but they took place anyway. The protesters were entirely and completely peaceful and nonviolent. Riot police repressed them hard anyway. Special agents of some sort were there to make up violence to justify the police actions, but those were left alone by the riot cops. Mainstream media made up the usual lies of protesters being violent and destroying memorials (the memorials were destroyed by the police). But regardless, the truth spread through social networks and foreign media.

(I told that to mom, her reaction? "well I'm not voting for the current party in 2017". haha, as if voting for another party would change anything. also, even after that, they still mindlessly consume the mainstream media garbage)

Anyway, all this is more work than just smashing banks and ad panels. A diversity of struggles and actions all aiming at getting in the way of capitalism. Opening people's eyes, fighting the state propaganda, making them see the truth instead of the official "our country is being attacked by mindless thugs and Muslim terrorists, only more repression and war will help".

As an example, ad panels are a good medium for spreading subversive messages. They're typically placed in spots where many people will see them. Unusual content on them will attract attention and well-chosen messages may open people's eyes. And by doing so, you're also fighting advertising, which a) is the manipulation tool of capitalism, and b) causes pollution. You're killing three birds with a stone.


As for war with Russia, well, sounds pretty dire. It'd be Cold War all over again. blarg.

____________________
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Marionumber1
Posted on 11-25-16 03:58 AM Link | #79906
It is dire, and what's worse is that virtually no one sees it coming. There's now an effort to get a recount of three key swing states (Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania) that might flip the election to Hillary. While there was evidence of fraud favoring Trump in those states, I don't think recounting is a good idea. There's likely to be no positive outcome from this.

Many recounts in the past have been corrupt. In the 2004 Ohio recount, election officials preselected precincts that were known not to be fraudulent (which literally led to people going to jail) and vendors reprogrammed tabulators before they recounted the votes. In the 2008 NH Dem primary recount, ballot boxes that showed clear evidence of tampering (already open, with ballots switched around) arrived at the polling places. In both cases, the election was clearly fraudulent, but so was the recount, and the results didn't get overturned.

If that happens this time, the election integrity movement will lose so much credibility. It may be impossible to get taken seriously or demand a recount again. That would be horribly damaging, at least for a while.

But if fraud is caught, it's incredibly likely that Russia will get blamed. This isn't based on any evidence, but the media has obviously been preparing for this propaganda since late July. If Russia gets blamed, and it looks like they hacked our presidential election, Americans will be clamoring for war. And the neocon government, that wants war with Russia, will be happy to deliver.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 11-25-16 03:43 PM Link | #79915
There's no taking this election back, whether it be rigged or not.

The reality is that we have to face the ongoing nausea that is Trump appointees.

Arisotura
Posted on 11-25-16 03:47 PM Link | #79919
there's also a good part of protesters that won't be calmed down by simply electing Clinton instead of Trump, or anyone else

____________________
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zafkflzdasd

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 11-25-16 04:08 PM (rev. 2 of 11-25-16 04:08 PM) Link | #79929
no, I'd side with protestors that are rioting against Clinton too, you see. I am not pleased with Mrs. Wall Street Circle-Jerker.

Arisotura
Posted on 11-25-16 04:26 PM Link | #79936
I'd side with the anarchists. Fuck the system.

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Marionumber1
Posted on 11-25-16 05:19 PM Link | #79938
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
There's no taking this election back, whether it be rigged or not.

The reality is that we have to face the ongoing nausea that is Trump appointees.


My concern is less about Hillary being put back in, and more about what will happen if it looks like Russia hacked the presidential election.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 11-25-16 05:20 PM Link | #79939
It doesn't look pretty no matter how this goes...

Arisotura
Posted on 11-25-16 05:22 PM Link | #79941
I'm not too concerned about that, honestly.

Supposedly Trump is the Russian sockpuppet or something. And he would declare war to Russia because they're suspected of hacking the election? That doesn't make sense.

Now if, by some unlikely event, Clinton was put in charge instead of Trump, that would be scarier.

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

shibboleet
Posted on 11-25-16 05:23 PM Link | #79942
she will if she gets 20 GOP votes

which will not happen

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Arisotura
Posted on 11-25-16 05:30 PM Link | #79944
Unless the whole thing was a scenario crafted towards that goal. Elect Clinton, but make it look like Russia hacked the election in favor of Trump, up to the point of actually making Trump the president for a while.

This is a conspiracy theory, but... who knows? Time will tell. If Trump stays in charge, we can stop worrying about this.

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Marionumber1
Posted on 11-25-16 05:37 PM Link | #79946
Posted by StapleButter
I'm not too concerned about that, honestly.

Supposedly Trump is the Russian sockpuppet or something. And he would declare war to Russia because they're suspected of hacking the election? That doesn't make sense.

Now if, by some unlikely event, Clinton was put in charge instead of Trump, that would be scarier.


The media has been spreading the narrative that he's a Russian puppet, but it's a total lie. In fact, it's a lie that allows Trump's victory to be treated as the result of Russian election hacking. People already think they're hacking our elections, and he did win fraudulently, so everything is set up to catch the fraud and blame Russia. If that happens, the public pressure to go to war might be inescapable, even for Trump. And if they think he won fraudulently, he'll lose a lot of legitimacy, and will likely be forced to cede more power to the GOP establishment, which is much more intent on a war with Russia.

Posted by shibboleet
she will if she gets 20 GOP votes

which will not happen


Hillary is closer to the GOP than Trump on enough issues to potentially sway some of them. I don't think faithless electors are likely, but if the election is thrown to the House, then enough GOP representatives might elect her.

Posted by StapleButter
Unless the whole thing was a scenario crafted towards that goal. Elect Clinton, but make it look like Russia hacked the election in favor of Trump, up to the point of actually making Trump the president for a while.

This is a conspiracy theory, but... who knows? Time will tell. If Trump stays in charge, we can stop worrying about this.


That is actually my theory about all this. Based on how the recount unfolds, we'll see if it's right.

PaperplateismGuy
Posted on 11-25-16 11:21 PM Link | #79965
As far as the Dakota Access Pipeline, I would like to state that I hope their waters remain clean and that the pipeline does not cause any environmental harm. Now, I understand that pipelines leak from time to time, but the chance of leaking large amounts of oil right over the burial ground in that small area is tiny. The drinking water will be fine. Lets take a look at how the oil tank farm has their oil shipped to them instead of the pipeline. The route is mainly rail, which is less safe and more likely to spill because the vehicle itself is moving over a track and could derail, or hit something, causing a spill. It also runs alongside the Mississippi River for a good distance, so if it derails, it can fall into the river and cause a spill, like it has done in the past. Pipelines have more accidents, but due to the amount of oil transported and the length the pipe, there are less accidents per ton of oil transported with pipelines than with rail transport. So if you're an environmentalist, I would think you'd be more in favor of the pipeline than other forms of oil transport but yeah...

So, the protesters. I've heard claims that these are peaceful protests, but that's what's not happening. At looking at the videos online at the behavior of the protestors, I find it appalling that these people would have the audacity to trespass onto private property (property that is not theirs) harass workers, destroy machines, and attack the security guards for protecting the workers onsite. These protesters are legally not allowed to be on the land, it is not public. When people say these protests are peaceful, they are either mistaken or lying. The police are doing their job correctly and they are resorting to more ferocious defence of the area, because these protesters are not going away and they are attacking innocent people who are trying to do their job. Protestors have caused roughly 1 million in damages to some construction equipment along with burning some of it. They also get in the way, physically of the construction itself by placing themselves in front of bulldozers in operation. The proesters will not get hurt if they just leave- it's that simple. I dont get why people dont just mind their own business and most of the protesters are white. Plus the pipe has been rerouted to skip past the burial ground and the tribe will soon, not be recieving water from the Missouri River as their water souce will come from Mobridge, South Dakota instead.

I think these protesters need to get a life and do something meaningful. They aren't going to stop it going ahead. The more force they use, the more they deserve to lose and it disappoints me that they're trying to go to 'war' over a slim chance of crude oil (which is a natural substance btw) getting into the river. The thing is, there are filters and if there is a spill, they'll be very useful and effective. I've looked at the potential risks involved with the pipeline, and they out weigh, in terms of safety, other forms of oil transport especially rail. As the world continues to grow, we will need more oil whether you like it or not, and it will get cheaper as it gets easier to move. This will fuel prosperity and set us up for a better future. Considering that the water contamination won't be an issue, I really think it's just another excuse to stop oil in general, that the tribal lands and environmental pollution is just a fig leaf to hide the fact that these people just want to halt oil.

So that's my basic analysis of this issue.

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Main - Trash - Shit's going down in USA (and everywhere else too) Thread closed

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