Rules/FAQ | Memberlist | Calendar | Stats | Online users | Last posts | Search
|
| ||
| Views: 19,981,395 |
Home
| Forums
| Uploader
| Wiki
| Object databases
| IRC
Rules/FAQ | Memberlist | Calendar | Stats | Online users | Last posts | Search |
04-16-24 08:02 PM |
| Guest: | ||
| 0 users reading My thoughts on where SMG is going. | 1 bot |
| Main - Archived forums - General SMG hacking - My thoughts on where SMG is going. | Hide post layouts | New reply |
| shibboleet |
| ||
 Fire Mario DROP TABLE users; Level: 123 Posts: 3400/4661 EXP: 20869715 Next: 361551 Since: 07-07-12 Last post: 1340 days ago Last view: 353 days ago |
For a while, SMG hacking hasn't been known that much. But when Whitehole came out, we all thought the community would grow and everything would be awesome.
That is not the case. What happened, was the exact opposite. In my opinion, here are some probable reasons that happened. Documenting objects is a pain.There's never a fully documented object. There's always shit Nintendo stuck into the game and we didn't see. There's STILL stuff in there we haven't seen yet. And we've been hacking this game for almost 4 1/2 years now. Even so, many objects in the beginning of Kuribo64's life were marked complete, while they weren't because they lacked obj_arg documentation. Even when people tried obj_arg documentation, it STILL was a pain in the ass to document something. Nothing will ever be 100% documented. It's too tedious.Complexity is slapped all over the place. Cameras, obj-args, switches, animations, everything. Barely ANYTHING is easy to do without going onto here and asking for help. Even I have to ask myself questions about how something should work. It's just complex and hard for a beginner. You have to be experienced A LOT to figure stuff out. Plus, the editor itself isn't really user friendly in the first place. So that makes it even more harder for a beginner to understand how stuff can work. The game is too fragile.Tiny errors crash the game. Very little wrong things can crash it, even a mistype, and that could be anywhere. Sometimes, literally nothing is wrong and the game just crashes. Then you have to start over again. It's aggrivating because all that work was for nothing. (Unless you store backups.) In all, the game itself is too frustrating. Another thing is that like, 3 people here know how to properly debug a crash. It's ridiculous, so if somebody new doesn't know how to do it, they're pretty much screwed for a while. There are better 3d games to hackHi there, 3D Land and 3D World. As these new games are approaching, people are drifting their vision of hacking to the newer games, that have better graphics, better engines, better anything. They are more attracted to modern things rather than leaping back to 2011 and hacking an outdated game. Nobody wants to do that, anymore. Because who wants to hack a game that's a step down from a modern WiiU or 3ds game? Custom modelsAlthough model importing seemed like a new era...it wasn't. It made stuff worse for the community. (No offense, blank, this wasn't your or anybody's fault.) Making models for this game is extremely tedious and has to be Nintendo quality to actually look good. If it isn't, the model looks like shit in the game. It's rare to find good modelers and textures that want to work for small non-paid communities. Most of the amazing modelers are in game design and are being paid to make these models. And who wants to waste their time making models for free that take hours? Not that many people want to do this. Motivation is just 3/4ths dead.StapleButter has no motivation at all for Whitehole. (I don't either, anymore.) There will be no improved editor. Reasons? Motivation. Because it's in Java isn't the only reason. It's because...who would even care? Why spend all of this time making an amazing user-friendly editor and only have like, 10 people use it? Why bother? Better off just keeping the editor that works and lets people make edits to the game. It works, and it's fine. Well, this is what I'm thinking. Everything is going downhill from here for SMG, in my honest opinion. I don't know if this can be changed, but there has to be a miracle to get this community known. ____________________ a |
| Agent000 |
| ||
|
Member mah kitty Level: 74 
Posts: 1356/1426 EXP: 3531471 Next: 122073 Since: 07-07-12 Last post: 2310 days ago Last view: 875 days ago |
Speak for yourself, I for one and many others are still very interested in custom models in galaxies and am willing to do tedious work and testing. The same tedious work and testing that goes into making an actual game or even hacking any other game. What makes you think 3DW would be any better to hack? ____________________ ![[image]](http://puu.sh/jR7Py/69ae5966ec.png)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/ciCyTWP.png)
|AgentSplaturn| if someone uses an external hard disk to store porn on |AgentSplaturn| is it their sex drive? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |skyluigi| agent that's one of the best quotes I've ever seen on this IRC |
| shibboleet |
| ||
|
Fire Mario DROP TABLE users; Level: 123 Posts: 3401/4661 EXP: 20869715 Next: 361551 Since: 07-07-12 Last post: 1340 days ago Last view: 353 days ago |
There are people who still care. It's just that said population is tiny.
Oh, and the 2nd answer is: 3DW has a better engine, better graphics, and may actually be more complicated to hack, but looking at 3DL's settings, it doesn't seem like there's obj-args and all of that stuff in the game. So it might be better to hack than this game. But people do have their opinions, though. I never said this was fact. I may be wrong, indeed, but this is just how I see it right now. Of course, you as a modeler would have a different opinion. ____________________ a |
| MoreCowbell |
| ||
|
Member Mawile or riot Level: 73 
Posts: 1390/1420 EXP: 3453278 Next: 32590 Since: 11-20-12 Last post: 1652 days ago Last view: 1652 days ago |
Well as someone who hasn't been interested in hacking SMG or anything for a year and a half, I would say just do whatever you want to. The reality is that in half a year agent and cosmo will be college bound. Give another year and Rean's gone too. Personally I think that there is no chance of any hacking scene developing in that time span. SMG has no chance, SMS has no chance, and 3DL/W won't be hacked and have a tool built in that time. So, just do whatever you want if you are really set on hacking.
I know that Agent and Cosmo are hitting that second semester senior syndrome, so I can understand why they'd just want to keep with SMG until they're off. There's really no point in anyone trying to tell others what they should and shouldn't be working on. It's just a waste of time. At the end of the day, 2.5 has failed and SMG hacking has failed in terms of where people wanted it. I mean 49 galaxies were supposed to be finished in 6 months. It's been over 4 years and that number is still 0. Anyone trying to convince themselves otherwise is in denial. But why does it matter? In reality you'll likely be done with this once college is a thing. In the meantime just let people do what they want. It'd be even sillier to start trying to move people to another scene. |
| Agent000 |
| ||
|
Member mah kitty Level: 74
Posts: 1357/1426 EXP: 3531471 Next: 122073 Since: 07-07-12 Last post: 2310 days ago Last view: 875 days ago |
Though I will say, if hacking 3DW becomes possible (with custom models of course) I'd love to model levels for that game. ____________________
|AgentSplaturn| if someone uses an external hard disk to store porn on |AgentSplaturn| is it their sex drive? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |skyluigi| agent that's one of the best quotes I've ever seen on this IRC |
| Jesse |
| ||
|
Member Normal user Level: 53 Posts: 489/688 EXP: 1123582 Next: 33537 Since: 09-05-13 Last post: 2369 days ago Last view: 1931 days ago |
I disagree with you that this game won't hacked because newer games come or that they are better and more modern.
Mario 64: Began developing a hacking community in 2005, that is 9 years after its release. Until 2012 we had no proper but buggy editors for it. and now people get the idea that we have to replace toads tool (the editor which crashes every 10 seconds) with a better one. Super mario world: This games bigger hacker community began also around 2005 but I think even before(I am not totally sure). that is still many years after its release. This day even older games get more hacked and stuff. The point I want to make is that upcomming games or hardware are not a reason for a hacking community to die. It may take away the focus but in a few years people might come back to this game and hack it for its unique features: gravity. People need to give this time. Its not bad if your community shrinks or is not growing. its firstly about you and if you want to hack this game, not about the community. |
| Splitwirez |
| ||
|
Otherwise known as rob55rod. Should probably get back to SMG2 at some point... Level: 68 
Posts: 512/1207 EXP: 2613409 Next: 115391 Since: 08-28-13 From: ._______________. Last post: 1954 days ago Last view: 1563 days ago |
I disagree as well. SM3DL and SM3DW will never, ever be anything akin to a viable replacement for SMG2...atleast not for me. I agree, it's hard to do anything, but for me, that's half the fun of it - the challenge. As for what you said about making backups, well...I've always done that after every change. |
| KoopaTroopaMan |
| ||
|
Member Normal user Level: 67 Posts: 806/1217 EXP: 2573383 Next: 19489 Since: 03-26-14 Last post: 2656 days ago Last view: 1377 days ago |
SMG has been my favourite game of all the time. I've played it since 2007, so it has been 8 years and I still love it. It's ranked as the 3rd best game (since I checked) and that means that it's very good (better than 3DL and W). The game was fun. Cool, challenging and beautiful levels. When you have seen all that it would be very interesting when you see that you can do like everything you want with this game when hacking it. I've always wanted to make my own levels and edit to do fun things. Like making the Whomp King shorter than Mario, make Dino Piranha purple, do a normal Goomba the size of a Grand Goomba, make a super hard level with moving platforms and Hammer Bros. etc. (this wasn't the best examples). Because of 2.5 I found this site and I learned about SMG hacking. Because of hacking SMG I've learnt much about files, TV games and ICT. This may sounds weird, but SMG hacking has almost changed my life and probably my future. Because of it I've sleept late almost every night and have got lack of sleep. I've felt tired in the school and I have become a computer nerd. I also bought an own laptop because to work with SMG. My future job will probably be to work with something like this.
Super Mario World is even more older and its hacking scene is still very good, better than the SMG. So why would SMG be that old? It's just some years, the time goes of course. I don't have SM3DL and 3DW, but I'm pretty sure that SMG is better. If those game has better graphics, then it would be much harder to make good models for that game. And also, why does it make the game better to hack if it has better graphics? A game with good grapics might is more fun to play, but SMG's graphics is okay and not much different than 3DL and 3DW's. And because 3DL and 3DW has somewhat better graphics, it doesn't make them so much better to hack. I have not a very big problem with that SMG is not the easiest game to hack, all that hard stuff is a fun challenge. I've heard SB said like "There isn't any SMG hacking outside SMG2.5". This isn't true. It's many SMG hackers out side 2.5. Me, SunakazeKun, Splitwirez, Mixlas, Jesse, PaperplateismGuy, Spacey, mustafa, Slacker, skyluigi, Linkx2, timehacker11, Anthe, NWPlayer123, Flame8765, Crashdance22, Hiccup, MarioKiller, Stomatol, Tahcryon, Stygmax, PCPM, Hankdog33, Pingulrik, jackmorgan8, Jacomsmile, legomariofanatic, sebagius7110 and probably more people who hasn't shown up here (some of them I listed has been or is 2.5 members, but they also hack SMG outside the project). It's also some hacking projects of this game, Neo Mario Galaxy, SUper Mario Galaxy: Plumbers Way, Jesse's hack and my and PPG's hack. If we all give up and think like you do, of course SMG hacking won't be anything. You have to be strong and beat all obstacles. |
| skyl |
| ||
|
Keep Calm and Inject Some Lysol Level: 50 Posts: 453/613 EXP: 943915 Next: 3402 Since: 09-13-13 Last post: 217 days ago Last view: 210 days ago |
All this is mostly true, but compare how it is right now to how it was in December 2013. There's a huge difference. ____________________ Can you burn a Luigi board? |
| shibboleet |
| ||
|
Fire Mario DROP TABLE users; Level: 123 Posts: 3402/4661 EXP: 20869715 Next: 361551 Since: 07-07-12 Last post: 1340 days ago Last view: 353 days ago |
While a 'fun challenge' is a 'pain in the ass challenge' to newbies, who 3/4ths of the time, give up instantly because it's too hard. ____________________ a |
| Arisotura |
| ||
 Star Mario in this room you have a pile of apple pies Level: 163 
Posts: 2963/9019 EXP: 56203863 Next: 283781 Since: 07-03-12 From: in a box 
Last post: 5 days ago Last view: 1 hour ago |
Posted by Luigi You can't mix SMG and user-friendly. Not with an engine that complex. [16:25:17] Posted by Agent000 Except when you make an actual game, you rarely ever work alone-- you are part of a game studio with people getting paid to work on the game. Comparing that to SMG hacking is like comparing apples and oranges. The thing about newer game hacking (including SMG, SM3DW and co) is that games are becoming more and more detailed and complex to match the increase in hardware power. Most games nowadays are made of 3D graphics (even sidescrollers like Rayman Origins apparently), and that is a big entry barrier. While hacking a 2D game made of tiles is something even a kid can do, hacking a 3D game is more involved (modelling, texturing, etc). And 2D-tile graphics is a thing of the past. Increasing console security doesn't help with ROM hacking either. Sure, the consoles will never be unhackable, but see where we are with the current Nintendo consoles. 3DS can be hacked, but the last firmware version doesn't have an exploit yet. Persistent exploits don't seem possible. Homebrew has to be distributed in a billion different forms to accomodate for the different ways to run homebrew. And don't get me started on the WiiU. ROM hacking is becoming a retro art. You do it with the old games. Or you replicate the old games on the modern platform (see the current indie 8bit game trend). The style and nostalgia of the old games without all the limitations of those ancient engines (and whatever asinine patching methods are developed to get around them). The truth is that SMG hacking needs a ton of dedication. Possibly as much dedication as I used up lately to build blargSNES on a console that is closed and still being reverse engineered and offers no debugging facilities. ____________________ NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is zafkflzdasd |
| MoreCowbell |
| ||
|
Member Mawile or riot Level: 73
Posts: 1391/1420 EXP: 3453278 Next: 32590 Since: 11-20-12 Last post: 1652 days ago Last view: 1652 days ago |
^this 
Trying to hack any mario game since NSMBW (which is over 5 years old) is truly a waste of time. It's a sad reality but it's true Do want you want to, but I think there are many better ways to spend time |
| Arisotura |
| ||
|
Star Mario in this room you have a pile of apple pies Level: 163
Posts: 2965/9019 EXP: 56203863 Next: 283781 Since: 07-03-12 From: in a box
Last post: 5 days ago Last view: 1 hour ago |
NSMBU and NSMB2 might be candidates if it ever becomes possible (unless something like Riivo is built for these platforms, enabling ROM hacking also enables piracy).
But meh. Same shit all over again. Five-hour Reggie! port, et voila, all the NSMBW community is on it. ____________________ NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is zafkflzdasd |
| KoopaTroopaMan |
| ||
|
Member Normal user Level: 67 Posts: 807/1217 EXP: 2573383 Next: 19489 Since: 03-26-14 Last post: 2656 days ago Last view: 1377 days ago |
So what is going to happen? Will the SMG hacking part of this board and SMG hacking close down? I hope this doesn't end up bad. |
| shibboleet |
| ||
|
Fire Mario DROP TABLE users; Level: 123 Posts: 3405/4661 EXP: 20869715 Next: 361551 Since: 07-07-12 Last post: 1340 days ago Last view: 353 days ago |
Because my opinions will close down SMG hacking
:> ____________________ a |
| Arisotura |
| ||
|
Star Mario in this room you have a pile of apple pies Level: 163
Posts: 2967/9019 EXP: 56203863 Next: 283781 Since: 07-03-12 From: in a box
Last post: 5 days ago Last view: 1 hour ago |
| MercuryPenny |
| ||
|
Normal user Level: 53 Posts: 188/712 EXP: 1142399 Next: 14720 Since: 05-24-14 From: :mroF Last post: 1126 days ago Last view: 1126 days ago |
Posted by StapleButter Or we could hide it and keep it to K64. Posted by Jesse Actually, Lunar Magic was released in 2000 and Acmlm's Board got started not long after. I'll need to look at the archives, but I'm guessing 2001...? |
| MK7tester |
| ||
 Magikoopa I'm back Level: 104 
Posts: 2953/3145 EXP: 11566986 Next: 295140 Since: 07-07-12 From: Dolphic Island Last post: 2589 days ago Last view: 2587 days ago |
Posted by StapleButter Mario Maker pretty much makes a NSMBU editor irrelevant in my opinion, and some people say NSMB2 is the worst core Mario game ever made. |
| Arisotura |
| ||
|
Star Mario in this room you have a pile of apple pies Level: 163
Posts: 2970/9019 EXP: 56203863 Next: 283781 Since: 07-03-12 From: in a box
Last post: 5 days ago Last view: 1 hour ago |
Not really. Mario Maker is meant to be accessible to everyone, and therefore it's limited. It looks like you can't place slopes, use switches/activators, and all those more advanced things. A NSMBU editor will always have more power than Mario Maker. But Mario Maker could help bring more people into ROM hacking.
NSMB2? Hah. Goal is the same old "rescue Peach" and "collect a ton of coins to get absolutely nothing". Aside from the coin gimmick that makes the 1-Up system pointless, it's pretty much NSMBWii with new levels. And some musics 'remixed' by adding 'wa' voices all over. Wouldn't say 'the worst', I had fun playing it, but it's definitely the least original. ____________________ NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is zafkflzdasd |
| Splitwirez |
| ||
|
Otherwise known as rob55rod. Should probably get back to SMG2 at some point... Level: 68
Posts: 515/1207 EXP: 2613409 Next: 115391 Since: 08-28-13 From: ._______________. Last post: 1954 days ago Last view: 1563 days ago |
Posted by StapleButter Would you say it's worth buying? I haven't yet, but I'm considering it. Wait, shouldn't someone be trying to get this back on topic? Backseat moderation isn't ALL bad. How do you know those things about Mario Maker? |
| Main - Archived forums - General SMG hacking - My thoughts on where SMG is going. | Hide post layouts | New reply |
|
Page rendered in 0.057 seconds. (2048KB of memory used) MySQL - queries: 27, rows: 236/236, time: 0.012 seconds. ![[powered by Acmlm]](img/poweredbyacmlm.png "powering nostalgia")
Acmlmboard 2.064 (2018-07-20)© 2005-2008 Acmlm, Xkeeper, blackhole89 et al. |