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04-19-24 11:27 AM |
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| Main - Posts by SuperMario64DS |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 1/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
I am doing an extensive analysis on the two related formats used primarily by the GameCube and Wii, BMD and BDL.
As far as I know, no easily readable, fully complete analysis exists. The goal here is to completely break this format down into simple text, on this page here: http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/BMD_and_BDL_(File_Format) What's currently on that documentation has been done me (With some assistance from other Custom Mario Kart members), very incomplete and bound to have some sort of error somewhere. I'm looking for anyone to help further the understanding of this format, many seem to yet a complete and readable analysis is still absent. Pretty much what we're looking for here would be anything that could be found useful in an editor, such as allowing Mipmap display, opacity or skinning, things that aren't quite fully understood or figured out yet. We can't hold out, and deal with blocky, vertex colour-less unanimated models forever. Plans to add BDL support to the popular Brawl editing software, BrawlBox, has been rumoured for quite some time, however, the creators won't even consider other formats without a full analysis. Whether they do or not, it's always useful to have a complete analysis of the common formats used by the game. It took them approximately 8 years to figure out vertex colouring for Super Mario 64 (Considering the start of it's hacking existence, not that were ever trying to figure out during the majority of that period), so why let this newer game be limited to dull, really bright models that have to use dozens of funky workarounds to look proper in game? My experience with programming is very limited, the best I've made would have been a small editor for MSBT Files, and some super ancient 2008 online game "Trainer", which is too embarrassing to talk about (Not to mention Assembly Sonic hacks, but we won't go into that right now). Perhaps if the analysis were more extensive, I could attempt to further extend my programming knowledge and attempt to make such an editor. Before anybody may think it's un important, try this comparison: This hideously bright place: To this colourful shader/vertex colour implemented place: Later on I'd like to perform a similar analysis on the game's main system as well, such as finding specific memory functions and RAM addresses - Anything we discover and put together will benefit the community. So please, if you know anything, please share it here or add it to the page mentioned above. After nearly 500 different BMDs and BDLs having had been analyzed by me, I'd like further assistance from others to help fully crack this format. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 2/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by blank They have hinted support for other games before, Twilight Princess & such. Even so, this information should be readily available to anyone who needs it, there are other people within the Mario Kart community as well who have an interest in this format too. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 3/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Please, that's not helping. The longer you withhold any information, the longer you'll have to to wait for good, rigged, models. Again, there are many people interested in this format, many thinking of Zelda hacks, many in Mario Kart hacking, people here, and myself as well.
If you choose to not release this information, go ahead. Just keep in mind that you're ceasing any opportunities for this possibility of a more functional importer & editor being created. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 4/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Today, Nintendo officially revealed their newest Super Mario game, Super Mario 3D World, a direct sequel to Super Mario 3D Land:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FnzQ9vdHpc A few things you may notice right away, it's the first Multiplayer Super Mario title, un-including Super Mario 64 DS' wireless Multiplayer Battlemode. Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Princess Peah appear as playable characters. The special moves and abilities from Super Mario Bros. 2 (Also known as Super Mario USA) return in this game. Mario and his partners are also running around, dressed like cats... Additionally, it looks like we may not be seeing the return of Kuribo's Shoe in this game... But Kuribo's Skate! From a personal perspective, I find this game too similar to Super Mario 3D Land, and to be quite honest, I was also expecting a more Galaxy or 64 style play, not a rehash of retro game play... Again. This game could hold more depth than it's predecessor, perhaps more of a background, beyond the cliche, save the damsel story? Give your opinions, comments, and whatever below. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 5/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Eeep, I should have payed attention, I thought I was posting this there.
Somebody will probably move it in due time. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 6/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by HolyRomanEmperorTatan There was a Yoshi-like Water enemy, as well as a Orange Yoshi that appears to be able to turn into a speed boat. Posted by mariogalaxythree Same here (I see that you edited your post). Agreed, I was unaware that this thread existed elsewhere, I should have checked. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 7/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by Mega-Mario I can assure that they never use Vertex colours. It's a standard RGB effect usually paired with opacity, which is how they manage to make a black texture look as if it's clear or blue while transparent. It's manipulation should be easy, which is why I've pushed for a further study on the format and have that information readily and easily available to whoever may want to use it. I do wonder, in regards to SSL's question. From what I understand, each animation is is paired with a material, and I assume it associate's itself by knowing what it's name is. Couldn't you rename one of your own materials to match the one the animation is looking for? Even if at some point we're able to create our own animations, I see no reason why you'd ever want to recreate any animation that features texture distortion. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 8/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by MrRean I'm almost 100% positive that it first addresses the Material name first and then the texture, as materials can contain more than one texture and it's possible for several textures to share the same name, connecting directly to the texture itself does not make much sense. As I said before, the water effect shouldn't be too complicated. The effect is a combination of two aspects: *opacity. Textures with opacity are semi-transparent (Just assuming that anyone did not know that). An effect in the model does not cause the material to become semi transparent. Rather, the texture image must be made semi transparent in an external editor, such as Paint.NET. However, the texture will not appear to have opacity in game if certain material/sub-material settings are not altered. Either these settings are currently unknown, or they're not editable through any program. opacity is completely optional, however, if you wish to have solid coloured water, or things like lava. *Now you have a transparent, black and white image with no colour. How do you get this effect? Compare the water seen in Peach Beach from Mario Kart: Double Dash!! to water surrounding Peach's Castle in Super Mario Galaxy. What's the first thing you notice? One's a very dark blue colour, while the other is completely clear. As MegaMario said, it's TEV. You can enter three values into three slots: R, G, and B. Each one can be as little as 0 and as high as FF. Combined, they can create an array colours. A variation of this exists in MDL0, I took the Blue Water from GCN Peach Peach, removed the colour effect, and the result was the clear water seen in GP Mario Beach. And of course, the moving water is texture manipulation, BTK. There's obviously much more you can do with these models then what you currently have set up, you're missing out on the benefits of multi-channel mapping, mipmaps, vertex colours, opacity, shaders, the 'shiny' effect, just to name a few. Rather than using an array of workarounds to simulate things like shadows and shading, you can use shadow mapping, vertex colours, shadow overlays with opacity, or all three. This means you won't have to use textures as large to perform workarouds, which also means that you can use even more textures and triangles in your models, so things like light beams or glass using opacity would be possible. I truly wonder why this hasn't been looked into more, the benefits outweigh the workload and time by tons. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 9/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
I've had a similar issue in the past. It's runs wonderfully on one PC, but not the other.
As Mega-Mario said, update your graphics driver. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 10/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by Slacker OBJ models cannot handle more than one UV Channel. Moreover, the OBJ Importer is not designed to. What you described is /technically/ shadow mapping. Pretty much you set up a light field (Placing object(s) in places where you'd want light), and render that to a 2D Map, then add semi transparency or a opacity Map, which again, OBJ cannot use. From what I've observed, neither Galaxy games use real shadow mapping, but rather vertex colouring. Objects like trees use either some form of 'dynamic' shadowing (Usually a cylinder shape which creates a shadow on the first/any surface beneath it), or a texture made to look like a shadow of the object, usually placed on a rectangular piece of geometry, in the position that the object would be placed, but slightly above (This how the majority of Sunshine's & The Wind Waker's Shadows work). Again, this method will not work, as special settings are required to have textures featuring opacity display properly in-game. Pretty much Glem3 (Or whoever textures the models for SMG2.5), uses a rather odd method to fake shading. Firstly, they use a base texture (Imagine grass or dirt), they repeat it several times, then re size it to a width of 1024x1024 or 512x512, or any combination of the two. Next, it appears as if they render the pieces of the model they'd like to have shadows to 2D textures, apply opacity to that, and put it over the large grass/dirt/whatever texture. Then when it comes to things opposite sides of an object (Notice the giant blocks found in Planet Planes) uses several textures, I guess three or four. First you have the normal block texture, then brighter/darker variants of that same texture. Those textures are used to fake vertex colouring; they give off the appearance that light is hitting an object from a certain direction, thus some sides are brighter and darker. Thirdly, objects which appear to have shiny/several variations of itself (Obvious in 2.5's Rolling Plinko or whatever it's called) use rather larger-than-usual textures which lapse into whatever shiny/colour effect it needs to. Now here's why this is bad: File size. To give you a bigger picture, Planet Plain's Model size is equivalent to (If not larger) than Bianco Hills, Delfino Plaza's & Ricco Harbor's Model sizes combined. Not only do these methods limit you greatly (In terms of object & poly count), but it will cause lag if you try to place too many planets styled this way, and, it looks rather ugly; not as good as the real thing. Pretty much there's no interest in ever doing this the right way, and no clue why. Plenty of ediotrs, importers, viewers, programs (With open soucre) and documentations The format's not even all that complicated. If I even had half the understanding (As far as computer programming goes) of the authors of the above cited software, then I wouldn't waste a moment trying to figure this out. (I only understand PPC assembly, that's it. I can't seem to grasp several concepts of languages like C#). So, there you have it. Either horrendously large files with low-quality and huge textures with odd shading and a time consuming development time, or blindingly bright models with no colour variations whatsoever. A rock and a hard place. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 11/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by blank Have you considered that not much may be going on because of the lack of a proper editor or importer? Custom Character models, nice shading... Would motivate me, that's all the nice stuff I'm used to. I haven't really gotten into this because OBJ is one of the most awful formats out there for when it comes to games like this. It should only acceptable for N64 quality games, and even so, N64 games like Super Mario 64 now feature a DAE importer, it's all backwards now. I'm not entirely sure myself where you'd start with a project like that though, there's still a lack a proper documentation. If you wouldn't be willing to do it, I'm not sure who will. I don't know enough about any type of programming to do anything myself, and I'm the one who would like to see this happen the most. Posted by Slacker And as I said above, the Super Mario 64 hack. There's a user here named Skelux, he's the one who made the Multiplayer modifications for Super Mario 64, as well as the model importer. He's a member here because of the Super Mario 64 DS section of the site. Other than that, I also know of BlackJax. He made BrawlBox, I'm not sure he'd be interested in this format. I know Chadderz as well. He offered to make several editors for the game (He already had the base for a Mario Kart Wii DAE importer), but he's too busy with his studies to help out. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 12/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by blank It's this type of attitude that's doesn't help either, Blank. You cannot grow fruit without first planting a seed. While everyone and their Grandmother may not suddenly jump to Kuribo64 the moment an importer like this is released, it wouldn't bad to have at all. Would Brawl, a game that is similar in quality to Super Mario Galaxy, ever had gotten anywhere in the whole hacking business if BrawlBox had now been released? There was absolutely no passion to speak of whatsoever when Mario Kart custom tracks were new. You were limited to a small number of polygons, along with few items. People tried it because it was new and easy. When Super Mario Galaxy first came out, it was quite the opposite. The game works entirely different. You now have gravity controllers, different sections, no importer, more complications. The most likely to try galaxy editing would be those in Similar communities, which was, at the time, the Mario Kart Community, which had already moved into it's unlimited object and model size phase. Then there were new people who had no idea, not knowing what a co-ordinate even was, and those were the people who stuck around, it would be all they've ever known. Firstly, the people who started the Mario Kart Wii community didn't leave it in a state of mediocrity. They went one step further, then one step further, then one step further, then one step further. They didn't leave us with just the SZS Modifier, they instead advanced and gave us nice tools like CTools. With CTools, you could now add whatever object you wanted, and, you could import nearly an unlimited amount of polygons. Not only was it easier, and more efficient that the previous methods and tools, but this also excited the few who were around then. Pretty soon we were given nice tools like Wiimms SZS Tools, KMP Modifier, KMP Cloud, and several others. The communtiy began to grow to such a length, that BlackJax, creator of BrawlBox, made his tools compatible with Mario Kart Wii. Secondly, Mario Kart Wii is of much lower quality than Super Mario galaxy 1 or 2. The first few OBJ tracks were first acceptable because Mario Kart Wii wasn't exactly praised for it's high quality or pretty graphics. Instead, shadeless and bright tracks were accepted because Mario Kart Wii wasn't too different itself. There was no greater example of a nice course than, say, Daisy Circuit. Thirdly, Mario Kart Wii and Brawl are a different genre than the Galaxy games. They're much older, feature competitive & multiplayer modes, and have online play. Time Trials, World Records, VR, competitiveness, all things that these games feature. If you recall, Chadderz released a video of a multiplayer hack in SMG2, which would atleast introduce to co-operative mode that New Super Mario Bros. Wii fed off of. I know several of my points are incomplete or in pieces, but I wasn't sure exactly what to say. Super Mario 64 Hacking never really got anywhere far, until Super Mario 64: Star Road made by Skelux. He was a one man band, he did everything but create a level editor. And it turned out to be quite popular, despite not much interest before, and it's difference from commonly hacked games like Racing, Fighting, or Action titles. You never know what will happen after you release an editor or importer like that. It may be a total failure. It may cause someone to want to do something as simply as replacing Mario with someone like Wario or Sonic, then it may set the whole community on fire. Ehh, what I'm trying to say I guess, is that game is difficult to edit, and still is. It isn't worth the time it takes to add fake shadows to your model, nor is it worth the time to set up levels with ugly models. Sonic Generations is modding is pretty tough, level layouts are difficult, as are the Models themselves. But people do it. You may argue that people have had more interest in that game, so clearly they'll be more likely to hack it, and it's doing well. Sonic is considered more 'Grown up' than Mario, attracting older, and smarter people. However, you should also consider that 'hackers' in the Sonic community are plentiful, they've been there for ages and hack nearly every game that comes through the door. Perhaps Super Mario Galaxy hacking isn't dead afterall, but rather, it was never alive to start with. Now feel free to point out the inconsistencies in this post, and tell me once more why there are thousands of reasons to not do the reasonable. And I'm going to quote this again: Posted by blank There was almost no passion in the 'original' Mario kart Wii custom tracks. The community did not prosper until it was pushed further. regardless of how object editing works. Levels of higher quality than the 'original' Mario kart Wii tracks can be made for any game, easily. But in this particular case, it's not worth the level editing time for a bight, ugly model, nor is it worth the time to set up fake shading with huge textures that don't really look so good to start with. This game has high standards in terms of quality and capability. --- I'm starting to realize that this is a lost cause, however. It's never actually going to happen, and there's always going to be some reason why it shouldn't happen. Lack of activity, users, interest, whatever. Once a community's in ruins, it's in ruins. Just let us know now, in big, bold letters, that you're not going to, ever, make such an importer or editor. Please. I'd rather not have a reason to stick around anymore, the thought of it has given me motivation to check here every so often, but not much anymore. Just dismiss the subject. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 13/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by blank That is incorrect. I do not want to give the time needed to implement fake shading, it takes too long to get right and results in a large file size. At the same time, I do not want to take the time to make a level with bright, ugly models. I never asked you, specifically, to make a model importer. Rather, I was questioning your thinking behind the reason why the community is not doing well, you say it's because there was never any interest at all, when it could very well be the lack of advanced tools. The OP seems to agree that the lack of vertex colouring is a nuisance. I may have said you in several sections of my post, but that was really towards anyone in general, whether they agree with your statement(s), or simply decide to read my post. I will admit, at the end of the post, I did write that paragraph towards you. Out of everyone, I was most hopeful that you would be the one to make it happen, you had the motivation to make the OBJ importer, and you're capable. But seeing that even you, as with everyone else capable lacking motivation to do so, I'll use inductive reasoning and say it will never happen. Posted by Luigi You seem to have misunderstood the context of that comment. Previously, he stated that the community has not, and will not, do well, despite the existence of any other tool. I was trying to convince him that this may not be the case. Model importing is indeed something to be grateful, however, in it's current state it's not capable of matching the game's quality. No criticism meant towards blank, he didn't invent the OBJ format, and plenty of games use OBJ for importing. If I were Mr.Genius, I would totally make one. Too bad I'm not, my first's name Dan and my last name's not genius. If you want to make assumptions about any comment I have, or ever will, make in the past, present, or future... Make on then, Mr.Rean. (And joking, of course. Apparently I'm Mr.Genius, You're MrRean, harhar  ) |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 14/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by Gmanextreme9 Have you considered opening the .jar file? WhiteHole was programmed in Java, it's a multi-platform program. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 15/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by Gmanextreme9 OH MY GOSH YES IT IS!!!!!! The Executable really serves no purpose, as far as I know. Windows can open execute the jar on it's own, provided you have the proper software installed onto your system. I'm not sure how answering a question, which has to do with topic in a way (A member who can edit levels is more likely to reduce the time the project takes than one who can't!), is straying offtopic, provided I don't expound on it further in a way that's unnecessary. (Three pages later we're talking about why all Bloopers don't use routes). I'll contribute, I guess: I agree that the project is too huge to finish any time soon. Choose a level, make it your absolute focus, and don't move on until it's 100% done, and you might actually get somewhere closer to the finish line, and dare I say, closer to doing everything you have planned. Even better, try making levels in a certain order (First > Last), you never know when something in an earlier level will effect something in a later one. Nobody will be impressed with 27.85% finished Galaxies, would they? |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 16/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Something interesting regarding level files:
The first two sub-folders in every Map files would be 'camera' and 'jmp'. Most people would probably assume the 'jmp' stands for 'Jump' (Which wouldn't make much sense anyhow). It probabley stands for 'JMap. http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/Filesystem/Race/Course/koopa_course.szs/course.0 :
A quick summary on JMap: JMap was first mentioned in Mario Kart Double Dash, the line 'JMap' can be seen within the file system in several places, including an un-finished text version of a course. JMap is then seen later Mario Kart Wii, an uncompiled version of Bowser's Castle, titled 'course.0', is found within the finished Bowser's Castle, stating the the file was created on 2007/08/30 11:50 by Yabuki Kosuke with JMap. It also suggests that JMap was used to create Mario Kart DS, as Course.0 oddly contains a list of every track found in Mario Kart DS, including Beta tracks. It should be noted that the three Mario Kart Titles, Double Dash, DS and Wii's level layout files are all contained within one file (BOL, NKM and KMP), not spread out among various files (BCSV). This may be the result of the existence of the jmp folder, as the level layout is divided among various files. The camera folder contains something interesting of it's own, the word 'SketchUp' is found atleast once within almost every .bcam file. This may suggest that Google SketchUp had some involvement in setting up the camera system. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 17/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by NWPlayer123 To repeat myself: Posted by SuperMario64DS Google SketchUp natively features no 'Camera system', other than it's viewer. The fact that setting up a camera system would require a 3D editor, and 'SketchUp' is a rater odd term. If Nintendo was 'independent', than they wouldn't have used ever Maya, as evidenced in the DS SDK. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 18/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
-revives-
Here's something to look at: ![[image]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67842559/Blinky.png)
Blinky, in Mario Kart Wii. He'll include re-colours for Clyde, Pinky and Inky. I've set him up to do something special when hit by an item or angry, so watch out for that in the coming weeks. -edit- Broken image tag, should work now. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 19/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Not a general WiiU thread around, and this is some pretty nice news:
(1.Very huge, showcasing Wii menu selection mode. 2., Showcasing Mario Kart Wii Custom Track on Game Pad) This came in today's update, and will likely be featured in tomorrow's ND. Sadly, games can only be controlled with a Wii remote, not the Game Pad itself. Luckily, the Game Pad features infrared lights (Or so I believe) so you can play games easily with the Game Pad. Some pretty neat stuff, with custom IOS's installed you can boot GameCube games from the Game Pad as well, but as far as I know no method of controlling GC Games with the Wii Remote exists at the time. |
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Normal user Level: 27 Posts: 20/141 EXP: 107118 Next: 9041 Since: 02-03-13 Last post: 2659 days ago Last view: 2544 days ago |
Posted by mibts SMGExtractor's only issue would be the time it takes move everything. Apparently the HomeBrew app 'WiiExplorer' can do the job much faster, but each directory has to be copied manually rather than all at once. |
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