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LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 01-21-17 05:28 AM (rev. 2 of 01-21-17 05:28 AM) Link | #81007
Posted by StapleButter
there were surely more protesters than attenders

I might be one of them protestors.

My brother brought up a Women's March I *might* attend. My brother asked me this because his friends were attending, and so I agreed to it.

Anthe
Posted on 01-21-17 01:12 PM Link | #81013
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
My brother asked me this because his friends were attending, and so I agreed to it.

I see you're well aware of what you're protesting for.

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MeTheMarioMan
Posted on 01-21-17 08:43 PM Link | #81030
Posted by StapleButter
there were surely more protesters than attenders

Not surely, but definitely. I'm still in DC with some friends, and when we were supposed to see the Declaration of Independence and other stuff, people in pink cat hats started protesting like crazy. It'll surely make national news. I'm currently standing around the mob now. Fun.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 01-21-17 11:14 PM (rev. 2 of 01-21-17 11:19 PM) Link | #81031
I' m at Los Angeles right now protesting, part of the Women's March. I took some pics, but I'll get back later. The metro and buses were PACKED and my bro and I had to walk partway there. But seeing this peaceful resistance pleases me, that Trump isn't gonna govern without a fight. We were at a rally near a detention center, but I mostly listened.

Anthe, not sure what your post meant, but yes, I'm protesting for women and minority rights, including just general decent and respect. All which Trump blatantly lacks.

Marionumber1
Posted on 01-21-17 11:24 PM Link | #81032
The main problem I have with this march is that the vast majority of participants would absolutely not be protesting Hillary, when she represents just as big a threat to women and minority rights, just in a more insidious fashion. I'm not accusing you, LGM, but most of these people are likely just upset that their team (the Democratic Party) lost.

Spacey
Posted on 01-21-17 11:47 PM Link | #81033
As much as I don't like talking polotics online, Ill break that personal rule for a second here to agree with Marionumber1. Hillary was about as bad as Trump (give or take the latest scandal) but in a more secretive and subversive way. I'm happy that we have a president who is at least vocal and open about the awful shit they do rather than hide it behind as much crap as possible, makes it easier to call them out on it. It really does seem that a lot of these people are just mad/upset that their party lost, as many of these people are the kind of people who were literally shaking after Trump won (which I personally think is a massive over reaction).

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Arisotura
Posted on 01-22-17 12:10 AM Link | #81035
I would almost think that getting Trump is the best. It opens true contestation, or atleast there's much less room for getting fooled by an insidious government.

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Marionumber1
Posted on 01-22-17 01:51 AM Link | #81041
Posted by StapleButter
I would almost think that getting Trump is the best. It opens true contestation, or atleast there's much less room for getting fooled by an insidious government.


Yes, that's what I think as well. As appalled as I am by the hypocrisy of so many people involved in these marches, Trump is successfully inspiring protest. If Hillary were president, these same people would be joyously celebrating, and then turn a blind eye to her misdeeds throughout her entire presidency. Just look at Obama as a reference, who was staggeringly anti-progressive: his cabinet was literally chosen by the big banks, he refused to fight for tough Wall Street regulation or single-payer healthcare, he preserved tax cuts on the rich, he expanded wars across the world, he continued unconstitutional spying, torture, imprisonment, and assassinations, I could go on and on. Obama practically outdid his Republican predecessor, George W. Bush., who galvanized daily opposition from Democratic activists. Yet most Democrats who claim to be progressive deny all of Obama's corporatist actions and adore him. The same would have happened for Hillary. Trump, on the other hand, makes the corporate cronyism very apparent.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 01-22-17 02:44 AM Link | #81043
You guys have it wrong in a few ways.

The Woman's March is a social justice issue. Sure, it has room for criticizing Donald Trump on economic and other things, but its focus was on women's rights and human decency. Most signs criticize Donald Trump for his past irresponsible remarks, especially the one where he finds groping women okay. That's why a lot of people wore those pink hats. If Hillary were president, this wouldn't have happened not because the protestors are hypocrites, but Hillary isn't primarily known for sexist remarks. Hillary isn't the one wanting to defund Planned Parenthood, make abortions illegal, repeal the ACA (which would entail in tax cuts for the wealthy while millions would lose access to healthcare). I know Hillary isn't honest, but she doesn't have a Mike Pence equivalent, who is a homophobe nor does she brag about grabbing and groping other human beings.

Second, I've been to a rally that heavily criticized the Democratic Party for paving the way to Trump too (for reasons you say) and that gathered a big crowd. Sure, that's anecdote, but there's that. That rally was held right outside a detention center. Pro-Hillary signs are there, but not numerous. All I can say is that people are dissatisfied with Trump. You can't just assume just because they dislike Trump means they really like Hillary. Remember, polls show that the candidates are both very unpopular. But IMO, Trump represents a bigger immediate threat to civil rights than Hillary.

Criticize Obama all you want, but he's a complicated president with good and bad things and is largely corruption free himself. Hillary is NOT as bad as Trump.

One more thing, this protest is actually a part of a worldwide effort for women's rights, so you can't say that most people involved are dissatisfied that the Democratic Party lost when the scope goes way beyond that.

Marionumber1
Posted on 01-22-17 03:24 AM (rev. 2 of 01-22-17 03:26 AM) Link | #81044
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
The Woman's March is a social justice issue. Sure, it has room for criticizing Donald Trump on economic and other things, but its focus was on women's rights and human decency. Most signs criticize Donald Trump for his past irresponsible remarks, especially the one where he finds groping women okay. That's why a lot of people wore those pink hats. If Hillary were president, this wouldn't have happened not because the protestors are hypocrites, but Hillary isn't primarily known for sexist remarks. Hillary isn't the one wanting to defund Planned Parenthood, make abortions illegal, repeal the ACA (which would entail in tax cuts for the wealthy while millions would lose access to healthcare). I know Hillary isn't honest, but she doesn't have a Mike Pence equivalent, who is a homophobe nor does she brag about grabbing and groping other human beings.


That fits into my point, though. Hillary hasn't made any of the obvious sexist remarks that Trump has. But her policies would be disastrous for underprivileged women. She supported social security cuts, which would destroy the income of women in poverty (especially those raising children). Wall Street deregulation, which she also favors, would have led to another financial crash that would have destroyed the poor and middle class's life savings and jobs. Her foreign policy has destabilized governments around the world, which has been especially devastating to women: rapes have increased due to the wars she supported, the toppling of Gaddafi in Libya enabled Boko Haram (which kidnapped Nigerian girls) to get their hands on weapons, and Haitian women were forced into prostitution and sex trafficking after her Foundation failed to help the island following its natural disasters and used it as a slush fund to enrich her donors.

Both Trump and Hillary are horrible for women's rights. It can be debated who's worse, but they are both awful on the issue. Hillary is just more subtle and indirect about it, saying the right words and committing all the wrong actions.

Second, I've been to a rally that heavily criticized the Democratic Party for paving the way to Trump too (for reasons you say) and that gathered a big crowd. Sure, that's anecdote, but there's that. That rally was held right outside a detention center. Pro-Hillary signs are there, but not numerous. All I can say is that people are dissatisfied with Trump. You can't just assume just because they dislike Trump means they really like Hillary. Remember, polls show that the candidates are both very unpopular. But IMO, Trump represents a bigger immediate threat to civil rights than Hillary.


I didn't assume that all of the people at this march were that way. In fact, I personally know some Bernie supporters who did attend this march. But do you really believe that the vast majority of attendees aren't Hillary supporters? And do you seriously think they even know about the threat Hillary represents to women's rights that I outlined above?

Criticize Obama all you want, but he's a complicated president with good and bad things and is largely corruption free himself. Hillary is NOT as bad as Trump.


Having your cabinet chosen by Citigroup isn't being free of corruption. Nor is continuing most of Bush's foreign policy, but managing to one-up him by starting even more wars. But maybe I am being too hard on Obama, since much of the power is really held by the unelected military-intelligence complex, not the president.

As for who's worse, Trump or Hillary, we can agree to disagree, but there isn't a stark difference between the two that makes one significantly better.

One more thing, this protest is actually a part of a worldwide effort for women's rights, so you can't say that most people involved are dissatisfied that the Democratic Party lost when the scope goes way beyond that.


And Hillary is a threat to the worldwide effort for women's rights. She's a practitioner of bourgeoisie feminism, which focuses its gains on the upper class of America.

Spacey
Posted on 01-22-17 04:01 AM Link | #81047
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
Hillary is NOT as bad as Trump.

[thumbnail]

And I don't use that to be mean or rude (rather to bring humour into a controversial and highly partisan conversation) but in all seriousness, no, they were both equally awful. Hillary was just as bad if not worse than Trump, though its not on the surface. That is to say that Trump is about as deep as a puddle but Hillary is as deep as the lake in terms of operations behind the curtain. Taking even a fleeting glace at the podesta emails and looking at the collusion with the media shows that there is more than meets the eye with Hillary. There is probably still a whole lot we don't know, even though the podesta email dump is massive and I haven't even brought up some of the worst of them, and we probably never will.

This makes me think that its much better to have Trump, someone who will probably end up tweeting about all his bad descisions making them much easier to spot and combat, rather than Hillary who wouldn't talk about the awful things she is doing until she either already did them or is almost done with them.

anyway, in before "muh emails" (again not trying to be mean with this just trying to lighten up the mood a little with a bit of punchy humour)

____________________
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Yami
Posted on 01-22-17 07:15 PM (rev. 2 of 01-22-17 07:25 PM) Link | #81051
In reality, the only reason so many people 'hate' Trump, and 'love' Hillary, is because of the bullshit the Mainstream Media kept pushing about both of those.

Like, hiding facts, telling what never happened, all of them being pro-Clinton and anti-Trump, just for their own interests, and of those of bankers and politicians, and using "Russia" to scare you off.
I even met lots of Trump haters this weekend, and when I asked them why they hate him, they said mostly stuff Trump never even said...

Edit:
In other news, Discord finally added a Linux download link to their homepage:
[image]

Yoshimaster96
Posted on 01-22-17 07:41 PM Link | #81052
Posted by Yami
In other news, Discord finally added a Linux download link to their homepage:
[image]


FINALLY!

My Youtube Channel:
Yoshimaster96smwc
Some layout tips/code!

-Yoshimaster96

Marionumber1
Posted on 01-22-17 07:56 PM Link | #81053
Posted by Yami
In reality, the only reason so many people 'hate' Trump, and 'love' Hillary, is because of the bullshit the Mainstream Media kept pushing about both of those.

Like, hiding facts, telling what never happened, all of them being pro-Clinton and anti-Trump, just for their own interests, and of those of bankers and politicians, and using "Russia" to scare you off.
I even met lots of Trump haters this weekend, and when I asked them why they hate him, they said mostly stuff Trump never even said...


I agree, but let's be honest: the corporate elites in this country are fine with either Hillary or Trump. Both candidates represent their interests quite well, despite some policy differences. In fact, there's evidence that Trump was rigged into power illegitimately, through the same means that Hillary "won" the Democratic primaries. My position is hating both of them, though Hillary slightly more.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 01-23-17 06:47 AM Link | #81056
I do think a lot of the marchers are Hillary supporters, but they seem less distant to me compared to Trump supporters. A little. But I feel Hillary supporters overlook a lot of things about who they're actually supporting, but it's nice to at least want a woman for president for once. Of course, I value what people say than what people ARE.

Eh, I can't see why I'd hate Hillary more. I don't trust her and I still don't see how Hillary can be just as bad. Of course, Trump is a buffoon and an incompetent one. But even if Hillary is sneaky and can potentially manipulate whatever, we're going to have Putin pretty much using Trump. Either way, we're screwed.

Goldman Sachs always won! Even when Obama was elected! Obama bombed, chose to rescue banks, extended government surveillance, and more!

Either vote is a vote for Goldman!

The whole e-mail thing is a concern, but I feel the WikiLeaks just has an axe to grind in the recent times. So there's that.

I think Hillary's policies sound bad, but they don't specifically target woman as explicitly as Trump's policies (abortions, Planned Parenthood <- that's really bad). The foreign policy crap sounds bad but it's hard to judge that if the indirect consequence is worse than blatantly defunding Planned Parenthood and restricting abortion access. Very hard.

And "deep as a lake"... Trump has a truckload of crap and corrupt cabinet members. I don't think Hillary can top that.

Yami
Posted on 01-23-17 07:07 AM Link | #81057
Posted by Marionumber1
In fact, there's evidence that Trump was rigged into power illegitimately, through the same means that Hillary "won" the Democratic primaries.

Really?
Show it!

Marionumber1
Posted on 01-23-17 12:03 PM Link | #81058
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
I do think a lot of the marchers are Hillary supporters, but they seem less distant to me compared to Trump supporters. A little. But I feel Hillary supporters overlook a lot of things about who they're actually supporting, but it's nice to at least want a woman for president for once. Of course, I value what people say than what people ARE.


A woman president should be icing on top of a president who's actually good. Many of Hillary's supporters were willing to overlook Hillary's major flaws because she was a woman.

Eh, I can't see why I'd hate Hillary more. I don't trust her and I still don't see how Hillary can be just as bad. Of course, Trump is a buffoon and an incompetent one. But even if Hillary is sneaky and can potentially manipulate whatever, we're going to have Putin pretty much using Trump. Either way, we're screwed.


There are potential reasons to oppose Trump more, but how is the Russia fearmongering a valid reason? Even if it were true that Trump was a puppet, and there is no actual evidence of this, US foreign policy interests are not worth protecting. On that issue, Putin has proven himself to be the adult in the room compared to our leaders.

Goldman Sachs always won! Even when Obama was elected! Obama bombed, chose to rescue banks, extended government surveillance, and more!

Either vote is a vote for Goldman!


Exactly what I've been saying. And the fact that a Democratic president can act this way without serious opposition from those calling themselves progressives is dangerous. That's the advantage of having Trump, even if one does consider him worse. Democrats will actually be able to muster up opposition.

The whole e-mail thing is a concern, but I feel the WikiLeaks just has an axe to grind in the recent times. So there's that.


If true, that still wouldn't change the legitimacy of the emails. And Wikileaks, if anything, has an axe to grind against government corruption, which Hillary just happens to exemplify.

I think Hillary's policies sound bad, but they don't specifically target woman as explicitly as Trump's policies (abortions, Planned Parenthood <- that's really bad). The foreign policy crap sounds bad but it's hard to judge that if the indirect consequence is worse than blatantly defunding Planned Parenthood and restricting abortion access. Very hard.


It may be hard to determine who's worse, but it should be clear that they're both very bad. Enthusiastic Hillary supporters who claim to be for women's rights are uninformed or hypocrites.

And "deep as a lake"... Trump has a truckload of crap and corrupt cabinet members. I don't think Hillary can top that.


She could easily top it. There may not be racists, but it would be just as filled with corporatists and contain more establishment neocons.

Posted by Yami
Really?
Show it!


Exit poll discrepancies, the same measure to show that Hillary won the primaries fraudulently, show that Trump won fraudulently too: http://tdmsresearch.com/2016/11/10/2016-presidential-election-table/ There's more evidence, but this is the starting point.

shibboleet
Posted on 01-24-17 02:29 PM (rev. 2 of 01-24-17 02:29 PM) Link | #81083
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
I do think a lot of the marchers are Hillary supporters, but they seem less distant to me compared to Trump supporters. A little. But I feel Hillary supporters overlook a lot of things about who they're actually supporting, but it's nice to at least want a woman for president for once. Of course, I value what people say than what people ARE.

Eh, I can't see why I'd hate Hillary more. I don't trust her and I still don't see how Hillary can be just as bad. Of course, Trump is a buffoon and an incompetent one. But even if Hillary is sneaky and can potentially manipulate whatever, we're going to have Putin pretty much using Trump. Either way, we're screwed.

Goldman Sachs always won! Even when Obama was elected! Obama bombed, chose to rescue banks, extended government surveillance, and more!

Either vote is a vote for Goldman!

The whole e-mail thing is a concern, but I feel the WikiLeaks just has an axe to grind in the recent times. So there's that.

I think Hillary's policies sound bad, but they don't specifically target woman as explicitly as Trump's policies (abortions, Planned Parenthood <- that's really bad). The foreign policy crap sounds bad but it's hard to judge that if the indirect consequence is worse than blatantly defunding Planned Parenthood and restricting abortion access. Very hard.

And "deep as a lake"... Trump has a truckload of crap and corrupt cabinet members. I don't think Hillary can top that.

one issue with this election are those who voted for Hillary solely for the fact that she's a woman, just to break the "glass ceiling". I get it why people want to do that, but Hillary just isn't fit to be a president.

trump really isn't either but that's not my point

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a

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 01-25-17 11:23 PM Link | #81090
I think voting for someone just because she's a female doesn't help with feminism's entire point.

It's for equality which means men and women get equal respect, assuming they both are competent. There isn't a favorite treatment here.

Ideas and competence still matter much more than personal qualities.

Yoshimaster96
Posted on 01-26-17 01:46 AM Link | #81095
*END OF POLITICS DISCUSSION*

But in all seriousness, IT'S TIME TO STOP

My Youtube Channel:
Yoshimaster96smwc
Some layout tips/code!

-Yoshimaster96
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