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04-25-24 07:33 PM |
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| 0 users reading Let's talk about 3D Mario games | 1 bot |
| Main - Gaming - Let's talk about 3D Mario games | Hide post layouts | New reply |
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 Magikoopa I'm back Level: 104 
Posts: 3020/3145 EXP: 11579054 Next: 283072 Since: 07-07-12 From: Dolphic Island Last post: 2598 days ago Last view: 2596 days ago |
WARNING: GIANT WALL OF TEXT
I love 3D Mario games, they are amazing games filled with adventure, discovery, and a general sense of polish that you would not find in other games. These games mean so much to me and i'll never forget the great times I had with them. However, as the series went on, I think things have taken the wrong turn. It all started with Super Mario 64, the first video game I ever played in my entire life. Obviously my opinions of this game might be obstructed by nostalgia. However, looking past my memories, this game was a great introduction to the 3D World of Mario. Instead of going through linear levels and finding a goal as in the 2D Mario games, Mario 64 involved collecting power stars within the kingdoms behind the castle walls. In every level, you had the oppurtunity to collect six stars, as well as a bonus star if you collected one hundred coins in a level. Although some levels were linear, most levels were very open and encouraged you to explore every nook and cranny. This sense of exploration and adventure is what made Super Mario 64 so great in my opinion. You could go anywhere, do anything. You wern't restricted at all. This was all accompanied by new mechanics such as Mario having a life meter instead of the traditional power up system, new swimming controls, and a new open ended nature that allowed Mario to reach power stars out of order, only adding to the sense of exploration. Not only that, the memorable HUB world of the castle that would replace the world system from the 2D Mario games. In the end, Mario 64 brought Mario to the 3rd dimension, and brought in an entirely new structure for a Mario game. This structure worked so well in my opinion. The focus of mission-based exploration instead of a linear adventure led a lot of Mario 64's levels to become very memorable to me. I always hoped that future 3D Mario games would keep this tradition, and my wishes would only become half true. Six years later, we got Super Mario Sunshine on the Game Cube. A lot of fans seem to be divided on this game. And to be fair, I don't blame them. This game still featured Mario exploring 3D landscapes in search of Power Stars, with a bit of a twist on enemy and level designs. Some parts of the game were a bit tedious, searching for Blue Coins sucked, and the hundred coin missions from Super Mario 64 were back, which many people didn't enjoy in the first place. However, i'm going to be completely honest here. I LOVE Super Mario Sunshine. It's one of my favorite video games of all time. The sense of adventure and exploration that Super Mario 64 brought to the table was back in full force. I loved all the unique tropical themed levels, with many other crazy new areas, I thought it was all done really really well. If you only make it your mission to get to the final area of the game and beat Bowser, Mario Sunshine is an unforgettable adventure. And then there was Super Mario Galaxy on the Wii. With the new theme of space, the new worlds of this game featured new more-constrained level design. But was it done right? Of course it was. Super Mario Galaxy is just as great if not better than those that came before it. The game brought a new take on the worlds of a 3D Mario game and a new structure for level design. However, the game was still faithful to Super Mario 64. You still explored these worlds in search of power stars, with multiple missions to make these levels memorable. The game still felt like it was a continuation of the formula that defined the genre back in Mario 64. After that, Super Mario Galaxy 2. Another great Mario game on the Wii with memorable levels, and a direct follow up to everything that was established in the first Galaxy. From this point on, the future of 3D Mario looked bright, who knew what Mario would be doing next? But after this point, things would change. Nintendo began to notice that 3D Mario games wern't selling as much as 2D Mario games like New Super Mario Bros., and so, a new formula for 3D Mario was created to appeal to the fans of 2D Mario games and bridge the gap between fans of the 3D and 2D games. It all started with Super Mario 3D Land. This game might appear like a typical 3D Mario game at first glance. But almost everything has changed. No more power stars, no more HUB worlds, no more multiple missions per level, almost nothing that defined 3D Mario as a genre was left. Instead, in this game, Mario again undertakes the simple task of going through typical linear point to point levels in search of a goal, and levels are selected via a World Map system, like the 2D Mario games. They even added a timer to every stage in the game to discourage exploration. I was let down. This is great for fans of 2D Mario, but it took away a lot of things that made me like Super Mario 64 in the first place. Although I see 3D Land as an okay game, I also see it as a scaled back version of the old 3D Mario games that is more like a 2D Mario game. And just like that, the game gets a sequel on the Wii U, Super Mario 3D World. To be quite honest, I actually like 3D World a lot more than 3D Land and I think this game has some great features like the addition of multiple characters. The game is great, and I even went the furthest I could and one hundred percented it. But it still really wasn't what I wanted out of a 3D Mario game, especially on the console. The level design was still extremely linear and restrictive similar to 3D Land. There's still time limits, goal flagpoles, everything that defines what a 2D Mario game is, not what a 3D Mario game is. The way i'm seeing it, the 3D Mario games are steadily going downhill and consistently being made to be more like the New Super Mario Bros. games. This situation is comparable to the Paper Mario situation, in which fans of the first 3 excellent, story-driven games and disappointed with the lack of character and RPG elements featured on the new games. I'm disappointed that 3D Mario games no longer feature mission-based levels, exploration, HUB worlds, or much of anything that Super Mario 64 established? So what i'm saying is 3D Land and 3D World are bad games? No. I'm not saying that. All I hope is that 3D Mario will return to it's roots on NX, with vast open world levels, power stars to collect, and a great HUB world to explore, all of the stuff that made Mario 64 great. I know there's some people out there who would prefer that formula never come back, but all that I ask is you respect my opinion. And if you agree, let's hope things change for the better 
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| fiver |
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 Fire Brother Normal user Level: 63 Posts: 696/1121 EXP: 2029232 Next: 67920 Since: 04-24-16 Last post: 534 days ago Last view: 501 days ago |
Super Mario 3D Land was fun. Super Mario 3D World was fun. These are underrated games. First off, I love cats, so that makes me instantly under 3D world's spell  But uh, wait, there's more. These games had great level design, in my opinion. They introduced a concept, build upon it, and made you master it. That's what I like. Also, they have a ton of great levels, and a ton of levels at that. It's legitimately challenging: I found S8-4 in Super Mario 3D Land harder than the Perfect Run. Anyway, they had tons of levels. Now, before arguing super mario galaxy 2 has 242 stars.. half of them -2 are green stars, which aren't real levels. they're just random stars added to levels. Now, they were pretty fun to collect, but it doesn't really make a difference. My favorite 3D Mario game to this day would most likely be Anyway, I can't say much about Sunshine and 64 because I haven't really played them. |
| MK7tester |
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Magikoopa I'm back Level: 104
Posts: 3021/3145 EXP: 11579054 Next: 283072 Since: 07-07-12 From: Dolphic Island Last post: 2598 days ago Last view: 2596 days ago |
Posted by xkitten Well. Think about Color Splash for a minute, think about how it's so far away from what made PMTTYD so great, no fun RPG elements, no epic story, no interesting characters. That's how I feel about 3D Land and World, they are fun, cutesy games, but i'd rather have the old 3D Mario mechanics that I loved back than play as a cat. |
| MusiMasta |
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 Buster Beetle Vaporeon Level: 43 
Posts: 98/450 EXP: 558660 Next: 6386 Since: 12-09-14 Last post: 2450 days ago Last view: 2433 days ago |
I loved SMG and SMG2, though I didn't even beat the games themselves. Everything is just so custom and amazing than, blocks, platforms, midpoint flags, etc. You actually didn't know what was going to happen in the mission because the worlds were so expansive (unless you cheated and watched a tutorial, which ruins all the fun).
I wished SMG2.5 actually existed, it would be so much fun... ____________________ MusiMasta - YouTube Channel Currently 374 subs! Help support me by subscribing! Thanks!
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| MarioFanatic64 |
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Member The guy who does things. Level: 31 
Posts: 179/207 EXP: 183452 Next: 1911 Since: 12-05-13 From: Australia Last post: 2365 days ago Last view: 2084 days ago |
I can't hate 3D Land and 3D World for what they are, because they truly are brilliant games, but I can hate the fact that the original format for 3D Mario games appears to be either dead or taking its longest release gap in history.
There were six years between 64 and Sunshine, two years between Sunshine and 64 DS, three years between 64 DS and Galaxy (though we knew of Galaxy's existence for two years before it arrived), and three years between Galaxy and Galaxy 2 (and we knew of that for a year beforehand). So far it's been six years between Galaxy 2 and whatever comes next, but we still don't know when or how, so to even say that we'll get one next year is a big stretch. The only hope left for the 3D Mario I grew up with and love depends on a.) whether the "new kind of Mario game" that Miyamoto mentioned just after E3 is a 3D Mario, b.) if said game is not a continuation of 3D Land and 3D World (that is, it doesn't take inspiration from the game mechanics of the NSMB games), and c.) if this "new kind" of gameplay is going to be an expansion of the free-to-roam concept of the original 3D Mario games or some other kind of re-invention for the series. Even so, Miyamoto said that at the earliest, we might see it at E3 2017, which makes me doubt it'll release next year. I want to be able to explore a seamless 3D Mushroom Kingdom already, that isn't divided up into limited segments and where fun isn't hindered by the nagging urgency of a time limit. I think it would be exhilarating to be placed in a single world with hundreds of platforming and puzzle challenges to find and collect Power Stars, and doing whichever mission you want in any order instead of linear progression, (the only exception to this is, perhaps the final boss). |
| poudink |
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 Bob-Omb [sic] Level: 49 
Posts: 59/616 EXP: 834169 Next: 49714 Since: 03-01-16 From: Québec (Canada) Last post: 897 days ago Last view: 831 days ago |
Like a 3D endless earth? ____________________ Nothing to say, so jadnjkfmnjamnfjkldnajfnjkanfjdksan jsdnvj m. |
| MK7tester |
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Magikoopa I'm back Level: 104
Posts: 3025/3145 EXP: 11579054 Next: 283072 Since: 07-07-12 From: Dolphic Island Last post: 2598 days ago Last view: 2596 days ago |
Time limits are the stupidest thing ever. I want to explore the landscape, why penalize me for doing so? I'll be so mad if these make it in again. It makes sense for a comet but for the regular level i'd like to be able to explore things at my own pace, thank you very much.
I really hope Miyamoto means "new" things for Mario as in actual NEW things, not more "new" Super Mario Bros. crap. |
| MusiMasta |
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Buster Beetle Vaporeon Level: 43
Posts: 172/450 EXP: 558660 Next: 6386 Since: 12-09-14 Last post: 2450 days ago Last view: 2433 days ago |
I completely agree, the Galaxy series provided new worlds that you could fully explore. This is why I loved this series more than the 2D series. And the time limits just really piss me off too, time limits just force you to complete the level faster, it's not like the game is some racing game. Of course, I agree there should be some, but overall I just want to explore the level at my own pace. ____________________ MusiMasta - YouTube Channel Currently 374 subs! Help support me by subscribing! Thanks!
Featured Videos: I PLAY POKEMON GO EVERYDAY IN 300,000 NOTES Pokémon Theme Song 260K Notes Remix |
| poudink |
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Bob-Omb [sic] Level: 49
Posts: 60/616 EXP: 834169 Next: 49714 Since: 03-01-16 From: Québec (Canada) Last post: 897 days ago Last view: 831 days ago |
Posted by Silver That's why I don't like pikmin 1. ____________________ Nothing to say, so jadnjkfmnjamnfjkldnajfnjkanfjdksan jsdnvj m. |
| MK7tester |
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Magikoopa I'm back Level: 104
Posts: 3026/3145 EXP: 11579054 Next: 283072 Since: 07-07-12 From: Dolphic Island Last post: 2598 days ago Last view: 2596 days ago |
Posted by poudink Oh same here. I tried Pikmin one time and I really didnt like it because of the time limits. I hear Pikmin 2 got rid of them, but I havent bothered to try it. |
| poudink |
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Bob-Omb [sic] Level: 49
Posts: 61/616 EXP: 834169 Next: 49714 Since: 03-01-16 From: Québec (Canada) Last post: 897 days ago Last view: 831 days ago |
You should try it, it's an awesome game. ____________________ Nothing to say, so jadnjkfmnjamnfjkldnajfnjkanfjdksan jsdnvj m. |
| LeftyGreenMario |
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![[image]](http://www.mariowiki.com/images/a/af/Mario_Mugshot_%2798.gif) Don't like politics? Too bad, it's-a Mario time. Level: 82 
Posts: 461/2062 EXP: 5097734 Next: 111493 Since: 03-14-16 From: Stabbing Wario Last post: 417 days ago Last view: 417 days ago |
Posted by MarioFanatic64 You can thank Super Mario Sunshine (even if you love Super Mario Sunshine, it's still an interesting read relevant to the current direction of 3D Mario). Super Mario 64 is okay. I didn't grow up with it. I believe it aged awfully, and Mario sounds like a total dork. Super Mario 64 DS, I think is better than the original. D-Pad issues never annoyed me. It had better physics. All I remember in Super Mario 64 is Mario grunting when hitting the wall, like, every time he jumps, and it's not as annoying as in the DS game. Wall-jumping is easier too. Mario has a better visual cue: he's sliding against the wall if he needs to jump. Addition of some stars is always a plus. Playable Luigi is always a plus. Wario is cool, nice to see him around in a mainstream game, though I personally don't like him as a character. Super Mario Sunshine was very meh. Had a lot of annoying issues people tend to overlook including terrible blue coin collection, meh controls especially for FLUDD, a lot of stupid levels, terrible plot, overuse of red coins, and NPCs that kill you if you fail a mission or something... god they returned that in Super Mario Galaxy. Super Mario Galaxy is great. Was linear, but I enjoyed it for its novelty at the time. Haven't played it in a while, but I'd imagine I'll enjoy it again if I had the opportunity. Super Mario Galaxy 2 failed to impress me and even angers me that it's heralded as something more than a rehash. Super Mario 3D Land is all right. Enjoyed it, but makes me wish for something like Sunshine or 64 DS, without Sunshine's annoyingness. Super Mario 3D World is where nostalgia pandering and playing safe really starts to wear on me (Galaxy 2 didn't help), but the multiplayer is a real boon, making it instantly better than 3D Land. |
| MK7tester |
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Magikoopa I'm back Level: 104
Posts: 3027/3145 EXP: 11579054 Next: 283072 Since: 07-07-12 From: Dolphic Island Last post: 2598 days ago Last view: 2596 days ago |
But that's why I said that I don't like Miyamoto's visions for new 3D Mario games. Back then, Miyamoto always wanted to innovate. Now it's all about subtraction and a bigger focus on making 3D games more like NSMB. Which is bland and extremely tiring at this point.
Sunshine recieved lukewarm reception due to it's many flaws and risks that it took, however, Miyamoto assumed that people just didn't know where to go or something? Honestly, I have no idea what he's thinking. Simarly, he's taking shots at the Paper Mario franchise too. |
| Tahcryon |
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Embodiment of Time Can someone lead me to a non-capitalist clothing store? Level: 128 Posts: 4985/5087 EXP: 23820486 Next: 561214 Since: 07-07-12 Last post: 2205 days ago Last view: 767 days ago |
Posted by poudink I like it, though not nearly as much as Pikmin 2. The time limit in P1 isn't that bad, though the game feels too short for it to be a full game. Also, I enjoyed playing SMG2 much, much more than SMG1. It was more enjoyable compared to SMG1, which bored me at times. It also helps that it had less of those bullshit bunny levels. ____________________
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