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11-14-19 01:28 PM
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Degolegodyl
Posted on 06-13-16 06:14 PM Link | #72001
Posted by StapleButter
dunno what Trump would do anyway, but he wouldn't do something against firearms


when shootings happened in France, he used that as an argument, as in "see, the innocent people had no weapons to try defending themselves"


except the same thing just happened in USA. so much for that

You're right. But we gotta admit that nothing will be done against firearms for the long future. So Obama didn't do anything about it and Hillary won't do anything about it. At least Trump will get to radicalism while obama and hillary are too scared to.

Obama in the press conference totally avoided calling out isis and only blamed the weapons and how easy it was to get them. Say firearms are banned. Terrorism won't disappear, they will still have bombs, knives, planes.

Isaac
Posted on 06-13-16 06:16 PM Link | #72002
Posted by StapleButter
it's ironic that they rank higher than Aaron on the board, yet Treeki is still an 'owner' too.

why is RVLution in maintenance again? did I miss something?
Aaron even post anymore?
Kuribo more like Dab

Arisotura
Posted on 06-13-16 06:17 PM Link | #72003
who knows what Trump will really do. don't forget they often lie to get elected...


it's like in France, we have our extremist right-wing candidate too (Marine Le Pen), and she wants to do crazy shit like take France out of Europe, bring death penalty back, etc...

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fiver
Posted on 06-13-16 06:35 PM Link | #72006
Extremist?

well damnit, shes giving a bad name to the generally good moderate right-wings

Europe needs to have to moderate people for once, my god

Degolegodyl
Posted on 06-13-16 07:17 PM Link | #72010
Posted by StapleButter
who knows what Trump will really do. don't forget they often lie to get elected...

Same with Hillary. At least you know what Trump stands for, he says a bunch of shit that he means. Hillary has a fuck ton of dark secrets. A lot of them got exposed and people still think of voting for her. Honestly the American voting system is so fucked, Bernie had a larger portion of the popular vote but because Hillary has support from a few politicians, their votes count for more than other people so she wins by default.

fiver
Posted on 06-13-16 07:21 PM Link | #72011
the delegate system is just messed up in general tbh

they should honestly count ballots instead

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 06-13-16 07:47 PM (rev. 2 of 06-13-16 08:31 PM) Link | #72012
Posted by Degolegodyl
Terrorism won't disappear, they will still have bombs, knives, planes.

Firearms are just more efficient at killing than either though. That's at the heart of gun control.

Posted by Degolegodyl
Same with Hillary. At least you know what Trump stands for, he says a bunch of shit that he means.

He absolutely does not. You definitely do NOT know what he truly stands for.

Posted by StapleButter
who knows what Trump will really do. don't forget they often lie to get elected...


it's like in France, we have our extremist right-wing candidate too (Marine Le Pen), and she wants to do crazy shit like take France out of Europe, bring death penalty back, etc...

See, that "death penalty" argument, Republicans support death penalty. She'll be right at home with the Republicans.

fiver
Posted on 06-13-16 08:34 PM Link | #72016
death penalty honestly is letting people get out of it easily; I'd think punished people by putting them in either prison for life or solitary confinement would do better.

and all republicans have different but similar beliefs; they don't all support death penalty.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 06-13-16 08:38 PM (rev. 2 of 06-13-16 08:41 PM) Link | #72017
Huh, well, I guess death penalty isn't strictly on party lines, though you can't deny that it's a common aspect to support it in the Republicans.

I think the death penalty should be removed and life without parole should be the ultimate punishment. The death penality is more expensive (death row, myriad of paperwork and the appeal process), it inflicts major psychological harm (would anyone here seriously would like to do this job?), it has the possibility of executing innocent people, it's classist (it's always poor people), it's far immune to racial bias (more blacks are put in death row than whites), and it has the possibility to be completely botched.

Arisotura
Posted on 06-13-16 08:40 PM Link | #72018
I'm in favor of death penalty for very bad cases, like terrorists.

It doesn't matter what they feel, all that matters is that you a) protect your citizens from those individuals, b) make their chances of returning as slim as possible, and c) spend as little as possible to keep them alive.

Death penalty is the best response to that. They will never return and they cost zero to the state.

Life imprisonment would also work, but you're basically spending money to keep those individuals alive while they give nothing in return, unless you go back to forced work (which many people would whine about these days). And there's always the chance of them escaping.

Oh and anyway, a terrorist's life plan is to die in the name of their fucked up ideology (and take innocents away with them), so either way you lose nothing!

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fiver
Posted on 06-13-16 08:47 PM Link | #72021
yeah, but dying for terrorist is the easy way out and probably was their intention anyway

spend money to show that if you are a terrorist, you will end up in jail and rot away there, never to be cared about again.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 06-13-16 08:49 PM (rev. 3 of 06-13-16 08:51 PM) Link | #72023
Posted by StapleButter
they cost zero to the state.

Wrong.

Death penalty cases are much more expensive than other criminal cases and cost more than imprisonment for life with no possibility of parole. In California, capital trials are six times more costly than other murder trials.(1) A study in Kansas indicated that a capital trial costs $116,700 more than an ordinary murder trial.(2) Complex pre-trial motions, lengthy jury selections, and expenses for expert witnesses are all likely to add to the costs in death penalty cases. The irreversibility of the death sentence requires courts to follow heightened due process in the preparation and course of the trial. The separate sentencing phase of the trial can take even longer than the guilt or innocence phase of the trial. And defendants are much more likely to insist on a trial when they are facing a possible death sentence. After conviction, there are constitutionally mandated appeals which involve both prosecution and defense costs.

Most of these costs occur in every case for which capital punishment is sought, regardless of the outcome. Thus, the true cost of the death penalty includes all the added expenses of the "unsuccessful" trials in which the death penalty is sought but not achieved. Moreover, if a defendant is convicted but not given the death sentence, the state will still incur the costs of life imprisonment, in addition to the increased trial expenses.

For the states which employ the death penalty, this luxury comes at a high price. In Texas, a death penalty case costs taxpayers an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years.(3) In Florida, each execution is costing the state $3.2 million.(4) In financially strapped California, one report estimated that the state could save $90 million each year by abolishing capital punishment.(5) The New York Department of Correctional Services estimated that implementing the death penalty would cost the state about $118 million annually.(6)


Even something like pro/con cannot find more definite answers for "yes, the death penalty is cheaper."

fiver
Posted on 06-13-16 08:51 PM Link | #72024
well damn, death penalty costs tons of money to taxpayers yet people still support it? yeesh. and it really isn't even much of a punishment, either. (depending on who you are)

MercuryPenny
Posted on 06-13-16 08:52 PM Link | #72025
also the death penalty would work better on a terrorist if it wasn't a public execution, and nothing about it, especially not the act of terrorism or the terrorist theirself, would end up in the media. though knowing how much the media wants to glorify horrible crimes that would probably be wishful thinking tbh


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fiver
Posted on 06-13-16 08:54 PM (rev. 2 of 06-13-16 08:54 PM) Link | #72026
what I also dislike is how people on media blurt out their strategies to defeat/stop ISIS or whatever

newsflash: terrorists like watching the news too! You are now giving them information on how to plan for their next attack without being blocked. Good job, media!

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 06-13-16 08:54 PM Link | #72027
They support it to "honor the victim", an "eye for an eye", and they often don't remember about our constitutional legal processes (which established appeals and death rows and a right to a fair trial) that often add to the costs, and the money itself to fund the process to kill the person, so they think "well, killing this person now costs less money than keeping this person for life".

You also get racist and classist undertones in there.

That being said, I must note that StapleButter's argument is for really bad cases, not necessarily in general; I was mostly trying to refute the cost side of it; death penalty is much more expensive than what a lot of people think.

Arisotura
Posted on 06-13-16 10:37 PM Link | #72040
can't see why death penalty should cost so much tbh. seems to all come from a ton of overcomplication surrounding it.

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Yami
Posted on 06-14-16 12:27 AM (rev. 2 of 06-14-16 12:27 AM) Link | #72048
Posted by Degolegodyl
Bernie had a larger portion of the popular vote but because Hillary has support from a few politicians, their votes count for more than other people so she wins by default.

From what I heard, these are to so-called "Super Delegates".
Super Delegates can even overrule the votes of normal Delegates, and of citizens, which is why your vote doesn't really count.

ElyosOfTheAbyss
Posted on 06-14-16 04:46 AM Link | #72054
Well apparently someone living in my neighborhood stabbed someone trying to kill them.

at least he was caught.

salty
Posted on 06-14-16 11:39 AM Link | #72056
Speaking of stabs:

My friend's dad once stabbed my brother.
With corn.

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