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Main - Gaming - Predicting the New SSB4 Meta [1.1.5] Hide post layouts | New reply


GreenThunder1337
Posted on 02-12-16 10:59 PM (rev. 12 of 03-29-16 04:27 AM) Link | #67722
So Smash 4 is finished, and there doesn't seem to be any credible tier lists. Nope, Sakurai's Wild Ride continues!

So at this point, I'm just mocking up a tier list early in a new meta. Yay for me.


[image]


>inb4 patch only just released
Some positions will probably change later, this is just the potential I foresee atm.



Thanks to gridatttack for recommending that tier list maker!

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Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

gridatttack
Posted on 02-13-16 01:40 AM Link | #67724
My suggestion? Use this app to make the list, take a screen and upload it.

http://quetzle.github.io/smash-apps/tier/

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[image] [image]

GreenThunder1337
Posted on 02-13-16 02:01 AM Link | #67725
Well that's really helpful, thanks!

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Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

gridatttack
Posted on 02-13-16 02:02 AM (rev. 2 of 02-13-16 05:20 AM) Link | #67726
Anyway, here's mine:
[image]

Lot's of 50:50 or 65:55 matchups in B and C.

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[image] [image]

MarioFanatic64
Posted on 02-13-16 10:25 PM Link | #67766
Eh, tier lists ain't worth the time for me. They're mostly subjective anyways.

GreenThunder1337
Posted on 02-14-16 07:43 PM (rev. 2 of 02-14-16 07:44 PM) Link | #67801
@grid
I'm finding myself wondering why you put some of the characters where you did.


Rosalina, for one, I think had Luma nerfed to hell back in patch 1.0.8 (my old main rip)
Sonic really does just spam, and eventually gets really predictable
Fox doesn't really have many options since his jab combo got nerfed
Abadango's Meta Knight combos has him in a top-top position if you ask me
Mario is definitely A-tier, Anti always keeps ZeRo on his toes
Also, Luigi doesn't have many options for punishing since he slides around everywhere, so keeping him next to Mario is laughable

Everything else looks pretty good though.

I still say Cloud is pay-to-be-ok-in-tournaments


____________________
Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

gridatttack
Posted on 02-14-16 09:10 PM (rev. 2 of 02-14-16 09:11 PM) Link | #67807
Posted by GreenThunder1337
@grid
I'm finding myself wondering why you put some of the characters where you did.


Rosalina, for one, I think had Luma nerfed to hell back in patch 1.0.8 (my old main rip)
Sonic really does just spam, and eventually gets really predictable
Fox doesn't really have many options since his jab combo got nerfed
Abadango's Meta Knight combos has him in a top-top position if you ask me
Mario is definitely A-tier, Anti always keeps ZeRo on his toes
Also, Luigi doesn't have many options for punishing since he slides around everywhere, so keeping him next to Mario is laughable

Everything else looks pretty good though.

I still say Cloud is pay-to-be-ok-in-tournaments


I'm basing the tier list on the meta in my country.

It doesn't matter. Luma can still and will KO you early. With its meta expanding more thanks to Dabuz labbing, Rosaluma is better than ZSS IMO.

Sonic spamming? Except when good users starts to mix things up and have you guessing, just to be grabbed in the end and be killed by either of his kill throw.

Not many options? lol. Fox doesn't need that, hes a rushdown character with fast attacks. Perhaps you haven't met someone who can use it good.

You can actually play defensively with charcaters that have good spacing tools and not fall for MK combos.

The Mario Bros. are just really grab-n-go combos, however mario does better due to the aerials and more reliable mobility.

And you are severely underestimating Luigi. His defensive game in fireballs and frame 2 jab to interrupt attacks are potent tools. He still has grab combos that can deal over 30. Also, on heavy or fastfall characters, he can connect a sweetpot up b after its second jab. Not fun either.

I made this in mind with all the tournament data we have here.




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[image] [image]

GreenThunder1337
Posted on 02-14-16 11:02 PM Link | #67811
Urm... Dabuz has been getting bodied lately. Including by Nairo's ZSS, who mind you, broke ZeRo's 54 tournament win streak, is considered the world's 2nd best player, AND is the best ZSS. So...

Never seen a Sonic that didn't spam. Duck Hunt's too, just saying. Sonic's up kill throw combo has a 50-50 chance of hitting because it's a read. So if you air dodge a lot, that will make Sonics look good. It's about as good as Shiek's Vanish read.

I'm completely lost on where Fox is good. If you run into a Falcon, you're pretty screwed. There tend to be quite a few Falcons in tournaments. I mean, that recovery is SO gimpable!

Yeah, Meta Knight's window to pull of a Shuttle Loop combo is kinda small, but Abadango STILL manages to pull it off.

Mario doesn't rely on grab spam like Luigi. He's perfectly capable of pulling of combos without them as well.

Luigi's sliding makes it hard for him to punish, and reeeaally easy for others to punish him. Even if he shields, Luigi slides everywhere. If it wasn't for the sliding, Luigi would definitely be a top pick.

____________________
Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

Timmy
Posted on 02-15-16 12:03 AM Link | #67812
Posted by GreenThunder1337
Urm... Dabuz has been getting bodied lately. Including by Nairo's ZSS, who mind you, broke ZeRo's 54 tournament win streak, is considered the world's 2nd best player, AND is the best ZSS. So...

Never seen a Sonic that didn't spam. Duck Hunt's too, just saying. Sonic's up kill throw combo has a 50-50 chance of hitting because it's a read. So if you air dodge a lot, that will make Sonics look good. It's about as good as Shiek's Vanish read.

I'm completely lost on where Fox is good. If you run into a Falcon, you're pretty screwed. There tend to be quite a few Falcons in tournaments. I mean, that recovery is SO gimpable!

Yeah, Meta Knight's window to pull of a Shuttle Loop combo is kinda small, but Abadango STILL manages to pull it off.

Mario doesn't rely on grab spam like Luigi. He's perfectly capable of pulling of combos without them as well.

Luigi's sliding makes it hard for him to punish, and reeeaally easy for others to punish him. Even if he shields, Luigi slides everywhere. If it wasn't for the sliding, Luigi would definitely be a top pick.


Reminder that just because a character is higher on the tier list does NOT mean that they automatically go even or have an advantage over those below them (in terms of the MU). Saying something like "Dabuz's Rosa lost to Nairo's ZSS" isn't a legit reason to put ZSS over Rosa lol.

And not all Sonics do Spin Dash. Sonic has AMAZING mobility to play very well-rounded and do incredible mix-ups and baits. And he has 3 KO THROWs. (B-Throw is obv the best overall, U-Throw and F-Throw KO better depending on position. Also Sonic has some nasty Spring > Uair setups on T&C and Duck Hunt. =P

Fox may have a gimpable recovery, yes, but he still has good tools and mobility to fight the cast and has an AMAZING punish game. Also he may have lost the infi-Jab, BUT he can still use it very well as a rushdown/GTFO option AND can do Jab 1 + 2 > U-Smash. Just b/c a character has a gimp move on him does not necessarily mean he loses the MU lol.
ROB and Ganon can Dair Ness out of PKT2, does it mean Ness loses? Not exactly.

I really don't know a thing on MK so eh

Regarding the Mario Bros, Luigi's damage output IS STILL there, just the KO confirm isn't anymore. He can still put up a good firewall however, AND his frame data is STILL excellent and trades pretty damn well with quick, hard hitting aerials (lol trading with him isn't a good idea). Also the traction isn't always an issue, if anything it's helpful vs Diddy cause his lack of traction will make him slip too far for Diddy to follow up if he trips on a naner. =P

==

Also idk if you saw but before the Corrin/Bayo patch (1.1.3) there WAS an official tier list established here.

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GreenThunder1337
Posted on 02-15-16 12:10 AM (rev. 4 of 02-15-16 12:14 AM) Link | #67813
Posted by Timmy
Reminder that just because a character is higher on the tier list does NOT mean that they automatically go even or have an advantage over those below them (in terms of the MU). Saying something like "Dabuz's Rosa lost to Nairo's ZSS" isn't a legit reason to put ZSS over Rosa lol.

==

Also idk if you saw but before the Corrin/Bayo patch (1.1.3) there WAS an official tier list established here.

...aaaand it says 1. Sheik, 2. ZSS, 3. Rosa

Point stands? Sorry, I just have like zero faith in RosaLuma after patch 1.0.8. Not that even Dabuz doesn't camp and spam anyways. :P

And as an ex-main myself, I definitely noticed the changes. They were devastating.

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Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

GreenThunder1337
Posted on 03-29-16 04:36 AM Link | #69208
So, new patch, new meta.
More "fun", as Sakurai puts it.

New list in the first post

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Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511


Main - Gaming - Predicting the New SSB4 Meta [1.1.5] Hide post layouts | New reply

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