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07-17-18 01:12 PM
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Main - Site help, bug reports, suggestions - The Banned Blast Thread closed

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iyenal
Posted on 09-17-17 05:13 AM Link | #88516
Hello,

I would discuss about a thing that became recurrent and dangerous for the community :
"The Banned Blast". Why 75% of the users are banned, why everyday there are users banned, and why it became so recurrent ? Adminstrators, there are too much bad persons in that community ? Or do you want to ban everyone until leading to a dead and ghostly community, where we see everyone greyed out ?

This isn't a solution. We have to find A TRUE solution together.
Why don't make observations and remarks to users before banning, or help users to respect rules, give second or third chance, or warn more frequently, accept more and judge less... A viable solution is possible.

Help, don't kill.
Kuribo64 is a great community, don't lead it to the loss.

____________________
[image][image]
"I failed in some subjects in exam, but my friend passed in all. Now he is an engineer in Microsoft and I am the owner of Microsoft." -Bill Gates

StapleButter
Posted on 09-17-17 07:31 AM (rev. 3 of 09-17-17 07:37 AM) Link | #88522
yes, we obviously ban users for our own pleasure


sigh



PS:

total number of users: 1511
number of banned users: 214
percent: ~14%

I'm not sure where you got your 75% figure.


just in case, I pulled the SQL console to check the numbers for active users (ie. users who posted or visited the board less than one month ago) and we get this:

total: 204
number banned: 11
percent: ~5%

so we're even further away from 75%

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul

what do you use to measure bolts? a boltmeter

Thierry
Posted on 09-17-17 09:58 AM Link | #88542
stapul stop shoving bans at people for fun


Posted by iyenal
This isn't a solution. We have to find A TRUE solution together.

nice slogan
Posted by iyenal
Why don't make observations and remarks to users before banning, or help users to respect rules, give second or third chance, or warn more frequently

yea right we never do that

[17:45:16] IceFairyAmy: i don't want a girlfriend tbh, it'd be a waste of time

<NWPlayer123> shibs is a nerd pass it on

shibboleet
Posted on 09-17-17 12:26 PM Link | #88567
Sounds like "you banned people that help others and i want help so unban them" tbh

____________________
a

iyenal
Posted on 09-17-17 12:50 PM (rev. 2 of 09-17-17 12:51 PM) Link | #88572
Posted by StapleButter
yes, we obviously ban users for our own pleasure

I never told that. The problem is about tolerance.
Posted by Thierry
stapul stop shoving bans at people for fun
nice slogan
yea right we never do that

Don't think.
Posted by shibboleet
Sounds like "you banned people that help others and i want help so unban them" tbh

You sound many things.

Please take this serious. Please don't try to hide things behind posts without any communicative values.

See around Kuribo64 and tell me how much you see grey. Sometimes there is indeed threads with only banned users. And sorry StapleButter, but users aren't numbers.

____________________
[image][image]
"I failed in some subjects in exam, but my friend passed in all. Now he is an engineer in Microsoft and I am the owner of Microsoft." -Bill Gates

shibboleet
Posted on 09-17-17 12:52 PM (rev. 2 of 09-17-17 12:52 PM) Link | #88573
So you're going against banned users that we've given chance by chance and had warnings posted in private messages? Send me users that you think we banned for this "unjustified" reason.

____________________
a

salty
Posted on 09-17-17 12:56 PM Link | #88574
users aren't numbers.


?????

even if there were 75% people banned, which there are NOT, as you can see in Staple's post, they are probably banned for a valid reason.

See around Kuribo64 and tell me how much you see grey.


how are you supposed to do that when the banned people can't post, also in the latest posts, i don't see any banned users so

____________________
"It's just a break in, to break out!"

iyenal
Posted on 09-17-17 12:59 PM (rev. 2 of 09-17-17 01:01 PM) Link | #88578
Posted by shibboleet
So you're going against banned users that we've given chance by chance and had warnings posted in private messages?.

Do you do this for 100% of users ?
Posted by shibboleet
Send me users that you think we banned for this "unjustified" reason.

I am not advocating, I note.
Posted by salty
even if there were 75% people banned, which there are NOT, as you can see in Staple's post, they are probably banned for a valid reason.

I am not of this conviction, you even told "probably".
Posted by salty
how are you supposed to do that when the banned people can't post, also in the latest posts, i don't see any banned users so

Users that were active and were banned.

If you don't want to discuss tell me, it is not a problem for me. (But for the community maybe...)



____________________
[image][image]
"I failed in some subjects in exam, but my friend passed in all. Now he is an engineer in Microsoft and I am the owner of Microsoft." -Bill Gates

shibboleet
Posted on 09-17-17 01:00 PM (rev. 2 of 09-17-17 01:01 PM) Link | #88580
So you're just going to ignore my question? You clearly state:

Why don't make observations and remarks to users before banning, or help users to respect rules, give second or third chance, or warn more frequently, accept more and judge less... A viable solution is possible.


And yet I ask for you evidence, and instead you answer it with a remark?

Come back and try to argue with actual legit reasons, rather than pull assumptions out of thin air.

____________________
a

iyenal
Posted on 09-17-17 01:18 PM Link | #88586
You don't want to understand, it doesn't matter, if anyone that try to discuss is a "idiot".
I see Discord.
You try to discredit me, so we will don't do anything constructive here. Tell whatever you want, I don't mind.

____________________
[image][image]
"I failed in some subjects in exam, but my friend passed in all. Now he is an engineer in Microsoft and I am the owner of Microsoft." -Bill Gates

shibboleet
Posted on 09-17-17 01:20 PM (rev. 2 of 09-17-17 01:21 PM) Link | #88588
"discuss" meaning throwing out completely baseless assumptions and when asked to give evidence, doesn't give any? You literally say "why don't we give warnings" as if we don't already? All I literally asked is to show us where we banned user without giving any further warning and chances, and you refuse to give this up.

____________________
a

MarioBurger71
Posted on 09-17-17 01:37 PM Link | #88589

iyenal, the admins are just doing their jobs. While in your opinion, you may not like the recent bans, we can't see the PMs of other users. This isn't dumb, but "unpreferred" to be discussed in public. I support you, but I think this was a bit unnecessary to discuss in public.

____________________

Newer is the best

My Derpboard | My YouTube | Contact the Derp | Derpmod |
[image]
[image]
Layout thanks to the how to make a layout guide 'cause I'm lazy as fuck

shibboleet
Posted on 09-17-17 01:43 PM Link | #88590
I can honestly understand the concern about "no warnings" because most of them are done in private messages to prevent a thread derailment, but what he just did above is him jumping straight to conclusions without further research, because I don't respect people that lash out at somebody with no reasonable evidence.

____________________
a

StapleButter
Posted on 09-17-17 01:48 PM (rev. 2 of 09-17-17 01:49 PM) Link | #88591
Posted by iyenal
I never told that. The problem is about tolerance.

for the record, there have been users like MG3 who were given a fair amount of second chances, or MoreCowbell who were unbanned after a long 'super permanent' ban which happened because they kept digging themselves deeper and deeper down


Posted by iyenal
And sorry StapleButter, but users aren't numbers.

remind me who gave that 75% number?

you can't just cop out and claim that "oh but users aren't numbers" when you give a random figure and said figure is proven wrong by actual data

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul

what do you use to measure bolts? a boltmeter

MarioBurger71
Posted on 09-17-17 02:49 PM Link | #88594

Why are we even discussing this? If you want to discuss the recent bans, move it to a PM or something, please.

____________________

Newer is the best

My Derpboard | My YouTube | Contact the Derp | Derpmod |
[image]
[image]
Layout thanks to the how to make a layout guide 'cause I'm lazy as fuck

Thierry
Posted on 09-17-17 03:27 PM Link | #88615
it's not just pms. you can use about anything to discuss ban in privates (irc, any priv chats), and peeps like you coming and acting like you know stuff ain't a first.

I don't see a lot of people bothered by the moderation here. as for me, I silently approve of quite a few bans. can't really help it when you see how old romhacking communities attract toxic people.
[17:45:16] IceFairyAmy: i don't want a girlfriend tbh, it'd be a waste of time

<NWPlayer123> shibs is a nerd pass it on

MarioBurger71
Posted on 09-17-17 04:07 PM Link | #88633

Well, you are right, I've never been banned, and am not on the staff team, so I really shouldn't be acting like I know stuff. Apologies.

____________________

Newer is the best

My Derpboard | My YouTube | Contact the Derp | Derpmod |
[image]
[image]
Layout thanks to the how to make a layout guide 'cause I'm lazy as fuck

Thierry
Posted on 09-17-17 04:11 PM Link | #88636
....I was talking to iyenal

and adding on to the previously stated points.
[17:45:16] IceFairyAmy: i don't want a girlfriend tbh, it'd be a waste of time

<NWPlayer123> shibs is a nerd pass it on

MarioBurger71
Posted on 09-17-17 04:12 PM Link | #88639

*facepalm*

____________________

Newer is the best

My Derpboard | My YouTube | Contact the Derp | Derpmod |
[image]
[image]
Layout thanks to the how to make a layout guide 'cause I'm lazy as fuck

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 09-20-17 04:00 PM (rev. 3 of 09-20-17 04:16 PM) Link | #89312
Posted by iyenal
See around Kuribo64 and tell me how much you see grey. Sometimes there is indeed threads with only banned users. And sorry StapleButter, but users aren't numbers.

I'm sorry, but the cold hard statistics dispute that. Saying "oh, but I see a lot of gray" doesn't change that, it's anecdotal evidence and that's the worst kind of evidence to support your argument given confirmation bias and other flaws, and thus isn't evidence for the contrary. I think StapleButter can try filtering to see overall which recently active user got banned, "recently" defined by maybe the last 90 days and maybe we might have a different result. Or you can try comparing this percentage to the average or median of banned users per form. Still, that 75% figure is completely made up. Saying "don't treat users like numbers" is ridiculous emotional pleading with no substance and there is nothing wrong with quantifying things that can be measured and turning it into a meaningful figure. That's the point of statistics and it helps us understand such figures better.

The most I can criticize is a lack of a formal warning system since users seem to be banned on a whim. But I'll check with other user statistics, particularly possible reasons a user got banned recently. It seems like users get banned on a whim if you're not familiar with StapleButter's banning behavior so some users have the impression that the threat of a ban is looming over them. The reality is that people get PMs about their behavior and so do receive a warning on it. It's the same as in Marioboards. Heck, in Marioboards, it's not uncommon to sometimes find entire threads and conversations by banned users, so this problem isn't unique to Kuribo64.

Some examples of recent bans. Known trolls and spammers don't count.

NokNokShell
The user got banned likely for extremely low posting quality overall. I know we sometimes engage in fun but this user seems to go a little far or doesn't seem to understand what he's (I assume it's a he) talking about. I don't think this user is older than 14, tops, but who knows, I can be wrong. Anyhow, makes nonsense posts including this where he wanted a Nintendo Developer Account and this Win7 account nonsense. When his posts don't get replies, he complains a whole freaking lot. Seems like postcount++, which is highly frowned upon here. He also necroes threads by asking honestly daft questions. Also repeatedly asked to be owner. Might be joking, but given overall post quality, it's hard to tell. Even made a poll about being owner, but got trashed quickly.

Spacey
Was the reason "Shit's going down in USA (and everywhere else too)" thread went to the trash. It might've started with DoubleYoshiExploshi's question of "if you complain about it why don't you do anything about it" which is in my opinion, a form of tu quoque fallacy, which is a faulty way to discredit an opponent's argument. Don't try it. Also, fyi, how you complain "it's annoying after a while" is not a legit complaint and can come off as concern trolling and tone trolling to other users. Now, this isn't DoubleYoshiExploshi's problem since he stopped but Spacey decided to do the same thing, but looks even more like actual concern trolling. Spacey engaged in extremely dishonest and disingenuous methods of arguing. It's dishonest because it's an ad homenium tu quoque as he accuses StapleButter of not embracing what he's doing and only using the suffering to embrace his views. It's disingenuous because discussing about it and acting on it are not mutually exclusive things and IMO StapleButter is likely powerless or financially strapped himself to give aid (remember he said he doesn't know if the money he gives will actually go to those services).

The act of saying "oh you're talking about economic divide that the storm clearly illustrated and making it a criticism of capitalism means you're only using it for selfish reasons" or "stop making it political" is definitely dishonest concern trolling. It's the same tactic climate change denier Scott Pruitt uses to discredit global warming by saying people are "offending Floridians" by discussing anthropomorphic climate change.

I don't think making crappy arguments is a basis for getting banned, but the Spacey decides to create multiple socks to give the appearance of more of a consensus, which again, is extremely dishonest. My suspicions were there, but Spacey destroyed his last shred of credibility by reregging or using meatpuppets just to make a point.

I'd criticize StapleButter on his fixation of capitalism but not in the same manner as Spacey has done. StapleButter has flaws like anyone else, but don't be a dishonest troll about it.

Super Hackio
I'm not 100% sure how this user got banned but I suspect it's from low-quality posts and being a little obnoxious but probably not on the same level as NokNokShell. Still, makes posts probably for the sake of postcount like this. Maybe some irl or behind-the-scenes PMs tried to get him set straight but he didn't listen or didn't improve that much. I'll leave it to some of you to explain, I don't think I was around when he got banned.
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Main - Site help, bug reports, suggestions - The Banned Blast Thread closed

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