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Main - Serious discussion - Fake News. Aka, the next generation censorship New reply

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Yami
Posted on 06-11-17 06:52 AM Link | #83677

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 06-30-17 11:35 PM (rev. 2 of 06-30-17 11:59 PM) Link | #84127
http://www.snopes.com/cnn-muslim-protests-london/

It's too bad you're wrong, and CNN is not fake news by any stretch.

I really really don't trust anything you post regarding fake news, Yami. You've made statements like this which, frankly are ridiculous, lacking evidence, conspiracy mongering, and you've only doubled down by defending your statements as "hidden truth" rather than "propaganda truth". Badger's Law.

Frankly, you're not the critical thinking type and I think it's dangerous you run around and label CNN as "fake news" similar to what Donald Trump is doing, without actually criticizing it or examining what it's all about. CNN has its own share of problems that are too long to list, but it's far from a propaganda machine you describe it and mainstream media have.

Marionumber1
Posted on 07-01-17 11:02 AM Link | #84148
Yami's claim was clearly wrong, but it's also disingenuous to say that CNN is "far from a propaganda machine". On certain topics, they get the facts right, but when it comes to politics and foreign policy, they lie very regularly. They literally present the obviously-scripted words from a Syrian girl who doesn't understand English and is calling for regime change as a factual justification for war in Syria. Which published this gem not long ago before deleting it:

[image]

StapleButter
Posted on 07-01-17 11:27 AM Link | #84149
dunno about other countries, but in France, mainstream media generally just parrot what the police says

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Yami
Posted on 07-02-17 06:57 AM Link | #84163
Alabed Bana, lol!
A so-called "moderate opposition"-controlled Twitter account, to spread propaganda from "within Aleppo", which had no Internet access at all at the time the terrorists occupied the eastern part of the city.

In reality, Russia, Iran, and Assad are the only ones who actually fight ISIS, al-Nusra, and all the other terrorists groups occupying Syria.
The US fights on both sides of the conflict.
As for "lack of evidence", do some research on other news websites, preferably ones not controlled by a government, or a certain political party.

Marionumber1
Posted on 07-02-17 10:42 AM Link | #84168
Posted by Yami
Alabed Bana, lol!
A so-called "moderate opposition"-controlled Twitter account, to spread propaganda from "within Aleppo", which had no Internet access at all at the time the terrorists occupied the eastern part of the city.

In reality, Russia, Iran, and Assad are the only ones who actually fight ISIS, al-Nusra, and all the other terrorists groups occupying Syria.
The US fights on both sides of the conflict.


Agreed, though in many cases, the US's opposition to terrorist groups is only for show. There are cases of them "accidentally" attacking Syrian troops that were fighting ISIS, and these terrorist groups were covertly armed by the CIA, Gulf monarchies (like Saudi Arabia and Qatar), and Turkey. A DIA memo even admitted that the US is supporting the Syrian opposition, despite it being led by Salafist groups such as al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), and wants an Islamic state established in Syria to isolate Assad's government. Since the 1990s, Islamic terrorist groups have been a tool of the US (see Operation Gladio B).

GalacticPirate
Posted on 07-02-17 12:54 PM Link | #84173
Russia ? fighting ISIS? LOL. Russia is only here to help Assad killing his own people. The international coalition, aka mostly France and USA does all the job against ISIS with their planes, with Iraqi army and Kurdish army doing the job on the ground. Who's taking Mossul and losing dozens of soldiers right now? Iraqis.

Marionumber1
Posted on 07-02-17 07:04 PM Link | #84197
Sounds like somebody has been imbibing the Western propaganda. Assad is the legitimate leader of Syria, and many of his supposed atrocities are likely fabrications (such as the recent report of prison murders) or (such as with the 2013 gas attack: see part 1 and part 2 of Seymour Hersh's debunking) actually carried out by US-backed terrorists. The links I provided show that the US has been intentionally supporting Islamic terrorists to oust Assad from power - an immoral attack on a sovereign country. Those who actually visit Syria and talk to the people (like the US Peace Council) find broad support for Assad's fight against Western-backed terrorists. The "international coalition" that you mention has no business being in Syria at all, while Russia has fought against the terrorist insurgency at the request of Syria's legitimate leader.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 07-03-17 03:41 AM (rev. 3 of 07-03-17 03:44 AM) Link | #84209
Man, I just read about Syria, and it's a complete clusterfuck. It started with rebels fighting with the government after protestors were arrested and mistreated, and all hell broke loose as terrorists join the rebels and United States want to fund the rebels but not the terrorists and there are the Kurds and there are the Russians who support Assad. I understand there is no clear "good" or "bad" side. I've also considered the evidence that CNN lies and distorts, but I don't think there is a collusion nor is Caity Johnstone's argument is super compelling. One questionable video is only a piece of the puzzle. Call me pedantic, but whatever she's presenting is technically "evidence" by definition, not technically "proof" per reasonable doubt.

Nevertheless, I don't think CNN is all that great (I'd rather call them incompetent and easily manipulated) and I think I've made up my mind to not rely on it for information. I'll look elsewhere. Anyhow, I don't see mainstream media exactly enthusiastic about the Syrian War, as it even counted U.S.-involved killings. As for U.S. involvement, it's so easy to say that the war should be stopped as literally hundreds of thousands of people have died including civilians and children, but the U.S. may be excaberating the issue and leading to more divisions and resentment toward the U.S.. There is no good solution to this, nothing that won't cost a ton of lives and more.

GalacticPirate
Posted on 07-03-17 03:44 AM (rev. 2 of 07-03-17 03:45 AM) Link | #84210
If you call someone resposible of crimes agaisnt humanity and war crimes a legitimate leader, I think we won't be able to agree.
EDIT: As for 'Western propaganda', it's the common "argument" employed by fascists and far-rights all around the world. So I couldn't care less.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 07-03-17 03:45 AM (rev. 2 of 07-03-17 03:45 AM) Link | #84211
It depends how you define what "legitimate" is. Assad doesn't sound like someone I'd invite for a picnic though.

GalacticPirate
Posted on 07-03-17 03:46 AM Link | #84212
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
It depends how you define what "legitimate" is. Assad doesn't sound like someone I'd invite for a picnic though.

IMO, once you start killing your people, murdering children and using sarin gas all of that to stay at the head of the country, you aren't legitimate anymore.

Marionumber1
Posted on 07-03-17 11:46 AM (rev. 2 of 07-03-17 11:48 AM) Link | #84230
Posted by LeftyGreenMario
Man, I just read about Syria, and it's a complete clusterfuck. It started with rebels fighting with the government after protestors were arrested and mistreated, and all hell broke loose as terrorists join the rebels and United States want to fund the rebels but not the terrorists


This isn't quite true, though. As my previous links have shown, the US does support terrorists in Syria, and even set up a ratline to transfer weapons and sarin gas to al-Nusra. And based on leaked Stratfor emails, the US and other NATO forces were on the ground training (not just funding) the opposition as far back as late 2011, and also sending in militias from outside Syria, all for the purpose of committing terrorist attacks and assassinations - a clear violation of international law.

I've also considered the evidence that CNN lies and distorts, but I don't think there is a collusion nor is Caity Johnstone's argument is super compelling. One questionable video is only a piece of the puzzle. Call me pedantic, but whatever she's presenting is technically "evidence" by definition, not technically "proof" per reasonable doubt.


It's not proof, but it is evidence. A girl who couldn't carry a normal English conversation with people meeting her, but who can continually spout lines about regime change, is probably reading from a script. And it's a complete joke for Jake Tapper to suggest that people follow her on Twitter for information about Syria.

Anyhow, I don't see mainstream media exactly enthusiastic about the Syrian War, as it even counted U.S.-involved killings. As for U.S. involvement, it's so easy to say that the war should be stopped as literally hundreds of thousands of people have died including civilians and children, but the U.S. may be excaberating the issue and leading to more divisions and resentment toward the U.S.. There is no good solution to this, nothing that won't cost a ton of lives and more.


The US corporate media has published numerous pieces about Assad's alleged atrocities, which are designed to stir up support for regime change against Assad. These atrocities often prove to be entirely exaggerated, questionable, outright false, or even false flags perpetrated by the US-backed side. Also, the Washington Post recently allowed a Raytheon lobbyist to write an op-ed in support of Syrian intervention without disclosing his ties.

Posted by StarTrekVoyager
If you call someone resposible of crimes agaisnt humanity and war crimes a legitimate leader, I think we won't be able to agree.


You didn't address a single argument as to how many of his atrocities were lies. And are you going to pretend that anyone fighting in Syria isn't guilty of war crimes? How about the US and its allies, which (as mentioned above) clearly wanted to cause terrorist attacks and assassinations in the country? Everyone has their hand in the destabilization of Syria. And while Assad certainly isn't a peach, it is against international law to overthrow him, an effort that actually began even before the current war.

EDIT: As for 'Western propaganda', it's the common "argument" employed by fascists and far-rights all around the world. So I couldn't care less.


It's also the argument employed by leftists who see through the efforts of the military-industrial complex and their neocon allies to launch a war in Syria. But it wasn't part of my argument at all, simply an observation used to begin my comment. Acting as if that was my argument and trying to associate me with fascists is a logical fallacy.

IMO, once you start killing your people, murdering children and using sarin gas all of that to stay at the head of the country, you aren't legitimate anymore.


Again, many of these claims are unreliable or outright false. Since the US-backed terrorists were almost certainly responsible for the 2013 sarin gas attack, shouldn't you argue that the US no longer has a legitimate position in Syria (even if it ever did, which it didn't)? (Not only did I link articles from Seymour Hersh showing that to be the case in my previous post, but the New York Times recently dropped the 2013 sarin attack from their list of Assad's alleged atrocities, a tacit admission that Hersh was right)

Yami
Posted on 07-03-17 03:59 PM Link | #84253
Posted by StarTrekVoyager
Russia ? fighting ISIS? LOL. Russia is only here to help Assad killing his own people. The international coalition, aka mostly France and USA does all the job against ISIS with their planes, with Iraqi army and Kurdish army doing the job on the ground. Who's taking Mossul and losing dozens of soldiers right now? Iraqis.

About Aleppo, this girl was actually on the ground during the fight, unlike any of the Western media.
She explains all:


As for Mosul, the fight for that city comes at a heavy cost also, which gets completely ignored by Western mainstream media.
The cost being a civilian one.
And if videos aren't enough, then how about Tweets?

And no, "Western propaganda" is not an "argument coming from fascists and far-rights", that by itself is yet another bullshit argument that's part of the Western propaganda.
I'm in no way a fascist, nor far-right, and yet I use this term...
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Main - Serious discussion - Fake News. Aka, the next generation censorship New reply

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