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Main - Trash - Shit's going down in USA (and everywhere else too) Thread closed

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StapleButter
Posted on 09-15-16 04:24 PM (rev. 2 of 09-15-16 04:49 PM) Link | #77395
https://itsgoingdown.org/


You might have heard of the prison strikes.

Long story short, the 13th amendment makes slavery in USA illegal, except for prisoners.

This loophole is exploited by sending people in prison for whatever reason, to provide cheap/free labor.

May sound borderline conspiracy theory. But it's something a capitalist system could very well do. Oh hey, this is USA we're talking about, surprise.

Among the companies who exploit prisoner labor, are McDonald's, Starbuck's, AT&T, and others... oh, and Nintendo. Hello!

There are ongoing strikes and protests in USA prisons against prison slavery, which are backed by protests from outsiders.


But that's not all!


There are also protests against the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline, deforestation threatening endangered species, racism, and other fun things. You have a nice list here.


It's the point where several interests (freedom, anti-slavery, ecology, etc) meet and converge against the capitalist system. It's going to be a fun ride.

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LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 09-15-16 04:36 PM (rev. 2 of 09-15-16 04:43 PM) Link | #77396
You know how hot it can get in Southern France.

It's worse in SoCal, but gets even worse in Texas.

Yet Texas doesn't require its state prisons to have air conditioning. It's not limited to Texas, but it seems like Texas is a prime example. This is death penalty for people who commit heinous crimes like hot-check charge and forgery for writing a bad check.

Posted by StapleButter
Among the companies who exploit prisoner labor, are McDonald's, Starbuck's, AT&T, and others... oh, and Nintendo. Hello!

I believe Nintendo was involved in mining for conflict minerals in Democratic Republic of Congo. So no surprise, they use prisoner labor. They eventually stopped, but I think that's only one of other human-rights violations they are likely directly involved in.

If prison is bad, I wonder how death row is. :D

StapleButter
Posted on 09-15-16 04:51 PM Link | #77405
I'm not all for abolishing prisons or authority, we do need those to ensure minimal safety (unless we want to return to Middle Ages societies).

But the way they are used in USA is definitely wrong, serving the capitalist system and white supremacy at the expense of everyone else.

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LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 09-15-16 04:57 PM Link | #77406
Prisons are required for civilized society. There is no escaping that. Same thing for authority. But our constitution gives people their rights, including the right to fair trial and the Miranda rights. We're supposed to treat prisoners with dignity. As Nelson Mandela is attributed saying

It is said that no one truly knows a nation until one has been inside its jails. A nation should not be judged by how it treats its highest citizens, but its lowest ones.


U.S. also has its share of crappy problems like gun control (and the heated debate on it that a lot of foreigners find weird), crappy healthcare (foreigners are usually shocked that our system is private and not single-payer and not guaranteed), the death penalty in general, and probably some others.

StapleButter
Posted on 09-15-16 05:01 PM Link | #77407
in the lack of anything better, anarchist protests are better than no protests at all as far as taking the capitalist system down is concerned

:P


France also has its share of problems if we get into that. the healthcare system has a huge money deficit. school is falling apart. etc.

____________________
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PixelDimension
Posted on 09-15-16 05:47 PM (rev. 2 of 09-15-16 05:48 PM) Link | #77409
That isn't all that's going on, either. This presidential election has been absolutely insane in every way possible. I'm seriously considering trying to move somewhere else after I graduate from high school.

Marionumber1
Posted on 09-15-16 06:09 PM Link | #77414
Relevant to this thread: my tirade about how democracy has been eliminated in the US, and we're heading towards complete oligarchic rule.

StapleButter
Posted on 09-15-16 06:20 PM Link | #77416
ultimately, everything is controlled by the capitalist system, just like everything was controlled by powerful kings back then.

____________________
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Lunarius
Posted on 09-15-16 07:13 PM Link | #77424
Posted by StapleButter
May sound borderline conspiracy theory. But it's something a capitalist system could very well do. Oh hey, this is USA we're talking about, surprise.


The US offers freedom to a certain extent. This is where most Americans interpret freedom incorrectly. Many believe just because the US boats of freedom means that you can do whatever you want. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans - those born here - won't realize that the US isn't as great as many natives claim it to be.

I think foreigners that reside in the US have the best concept of how the US truly is. Natives just boast about how “great” the US is without knowing what happens “behind the scenes.”




<Silvreus>I am a random person…
<Silvreus>With a random personality…
<Silvreus>With a random life…
<Silvreus>How fun. :P



StapleButter
Posted on 09-15-16 07:41 PM Link | #77429
'to a certain extent'.

prisoners are also free... to move within their cell. :P


anyway, modern humans rely on modern technology, which is brought to them by big companies.

big companies want to make profit. how to make more? by requiring you to buy more. either by actually innovating, or by making their shit last less long -- planned obsolescence.

big companies aim at maximizing profits and minimizing production costs, which is another good reason to produce cheap crap.

there isn't much you can do, because breaking free from these shackles basically means throwing modern comfort out the window.

a solution would be having smaller, less reckless companies producing quality goods. which would imply higher prices, tho.

and basically going back in the past. goods that are built to last and easily repairable. as opposed to today's black boxes of crap.


actually, maybe a return in the past within certain limits would be the best solution for society and environment.

____________________
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what do you use to measure bolts? a boltmeter

PixelDimension
Posted on 09-15-16 08:02 PM (rev. 3 of 09-15-16 08:06 PM) Link | #77434
USA needs a complete political overhaul. Abolish the Electoral College. Make voting mandatory a la Australia so that the elected officials actually represent what the majority of the people want instead of the wishes of the 40%-ish who actually vote. Make it a nonpartisan democracy. Maybe even make political parties illegal. George Washington (first American president) in his final address to the nation warned people not to form political parties as it would only divide them.
He's not turning in his grave right now, he's spinning as if in a blender.

We need social democracy - completely free capitalism is just asking for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer...then the rich take power in government...then suddenly, oligarchy. I think it should be a system similar to the Nordic countries. There's a reason Norway is probably the best country in the world to live in right now.

I'm going to stop now before this post turns into a rant.

StapleButter
Posted on 09-15-16 08:07 PM Link | #77436
Forcing voting is pointless, those who don't know what to vote or don't want to would just vote blank.

I think that the whole politics game has done its time. We should get rid of all that crap and just, you know, get shit done.

____________________
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what do you use to measure bolts? a boltmeter

Marionumber1
Posted on 09-15-16 08:09 PM Link | #77437
Posted by PixelDimension
USA needs a complete political overhaul. Abolish the Electoral College. Make voting mandatory a la Australia so that the elected officials actually represent what the majority of the people want instead of the wishes of the 40%-ish who actually vote. Make it a nonpartisan democracy. Maybe even make political parties illegal. George Washington (first American president) in his final address to the nation warned people not to form political parties as it would only divide them.
He's not turning in his grave right now, he's spinning as if in a blender.

We need social democracy - completely free capitalism is just asking for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer...then the rich take power in government...then suddenly, oligarchy. I think it should be a system similar to the Nordic countries. There's a reason Norway is probably the best country in the world to live in right now.

I'm going to stop now before this post turns into a rant.


I agree with the need for social democracy, but none of that will happen without fair elections. There's an entire thread of mine about this on the serious forum. Right now, our elections are easily manipulable, and there's likely been widespread election fraud going on for at least 20 years. Countless politicians are being installed into office who didn't actually win the votes of the people.

StapleButter
Posted on 09-15-16 08:12 PM Link | #77438
Elections in themselves imply that you trust an authority to count the votes and take the decision the result dictates.


Only way to be sure no cheating happens would be making the nation-wide vote counts visible at all times. Including reflecting the vote you just submitted. Then multiple people or whatever could witness the vote counts and notice any fraud.

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul

what do you use to measure bolts? a boltmeter

Marionumber1
Posted on 09-15-16 08:15 PM Link | #77439
Posted by StapleButter
Elections in themselves imply that you trust an authority to count the votes and take the decision the result dictates.


Only way to be sure no cheating happens would be making the nation-wide vote counts visible at all times. Including reflecting the vote you just submitted. Then multiple people or whatever could witness the vote counts and notice any fraud.


If you rely on machines to count the votes, you are indeed forced to place your trust in a single entity. That's why the gold standard for election accuracy is publicly-observable hand counts of ballots. And that's what I hope for the US to adopt.

MercuryPenny
Posted on 09-15-16 11:26 PM Link | #77445
this is a reply to what staple said in the election fraud thread elsewhere but i feel like it fits better here

Posted by StapleButter
capitalism will fall. just like communism did back then.

free-market capitalism is a good idea, but the problem is the inevitable rise of monopolies on specific products. there aren't really a whole lot of actual monopolies but the effect is the same when you only have 4 choices for a phone, rather than a sea of different variations you can pick your favorite out of.

the intended essence of capitalism is one that has existed since the dawn of civilization - that any dumb hick can make a product, or provide a service, and sell it to someone who wants it. however, it becomes extremely difficult to do that as more and more products are being monopolized by big companies like microsoft, google and apple. this causes the market to become stale, and by the time the it's viable for any small businesses and individuals to pitch in without being completely ignored, no-one wants anything to do with the product - no-one cares, because it's not worthwhile anymore. it's been milked dry, and no-one's willing to pay attention to any legitimate innovations anyone has to offer in the field.

this could be mitigated by somehow limiting the reach of a given company but that severely limits the gains of hitting a good market. the market never grows or gets an opportunity to innovate if no-one hears of it outside a small area. more people involved in a given field means more chances someone will come up with an actually interesting twist on the idea, but you can barely risk that - especially nowadays, since word of something really good can spread at the speed of light - without allowing monopolies to form.

how do we fix that? that's not for me to answer. there are people far more qualified to suggest solutions to the issues free-market capitalism has than me. but the point is, capitalism is indeed a flawed system but the real issue with modern society is the monopolies it has inadvertently created.


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Baby Luigi
Posted on 09-16-16 02:42 PM Link | #77467
tbh after reading the state of those prisons, the death penalty sounds like a fine alternative.

StapleButter
Posted on 09-16-16 03:01 PM Link | #77472
Capitalism worked well for a while, as we saw tremendous progress in technology. But I think it doesn't work anymore at this point. We already have more than enough to live comfortably. A lot of the progress these days is phony and geared towards making you buy more crap than you need.

One of the blogs I read talked about "stopping everything" as a solution to global warming. Stopping all industry. A pretty hardcore solution. But at this point, pretty needed if we want to avoid dramatic consequences?

While food may be a problem if we did that, for the rest, we surely have enough shit produced to sustain ourselves for a few years, and plan the transition.

The transition would replace giant companies with smaller companies producing and selling locally with local materials. The need for transportation of goods would be reduced a lot.

100% local production isn't possible for everything though. But... we can try.

For shit like appliances and other shit you don't need to buy often, on-demand production could be a good idea. ie: you order your thing and they start building it. It would take a while longer than if it was readily available. But no mass production of things, no waste, etc.

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul

what do you use to measure bolts? a boltmeter

MercuryPenny
Posted on 09-16-16 03:22 PM Link | #77480
well, that's what america did before the industrial revolution as far as i know. it obviously didn't stay forever.

stopping all industry leaves billions without jobs, and would lead to worldwide poverty unless small businesses were set up immediately all over the world. and you can't stop industry without first taking down almost every company in existence, and good luck with that. it's wishful thinking.

we're stuck with the way things are until nuclear war destroys society as we know it, but that has no guarantee of happening either.


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StapleButter
Posted on 09-16-16 03:25 PM Link | #77482
oh, there can be a better ending than nuclear war :P

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