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Main - Serious discussion - What are your beliefs? New reply

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Marionumber1
Posted on 07-24-16 04:32 PM Link | #74589
I'm an atheist, simply because I see no reason to believe in a god. Almost every question can either be answered satisfactorily by science/logic, or can't be answered any better by religion than science (e.g. what created the universe vs. what created a god).

StapleButter
Posted on 07-24-16 04:35 PM Link | #74591
'what created a God'

maybe it has always existed. Then again, the same could be said about the universe. Maybe we're mistakenly trying to find the bounds of something infinite across all dimensions.

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Marionumber1
Posted on 07-24-16 04:36 PM Link | #74592
Posted by StapleButter
maybe it has always existed. Then again, the same could be said about the universe.


That's my point. Either way, you have to believe that something was always there, so religion isn't a better explanation than science in that regard.

Hiccup
Posted on 07-24-16 04:38 PM Link | #74593
We don't know what triggered the big bang, nor do we know if we ever will. But it might be interesting to find out :P

StapleButter
Posted on 07-24-16 05:30 PM Link | #74601
the big bang itself is a theory, nobody was there to watch it when it happened. And if the universe has always existed, the big bang isn't a thing.

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MusiMasta
Posted on 07-24-16 05:34 PM Link | #74602
yeah, it's always going to be a question...the most we can really do right now is use high powered telescopes to see as far (back in time) as we can and the current evidence points to a big bang. And the big bang technically requires something, although smaller than a quark, to function.

the string theory is actually quite interesting, explaining how something can come out of nothing, though it's quite confusing.

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StapleButter
Posted on 07-24-16 05:39 PM Link | #74603
reminds me of something. If we could build a telescope with an infinite level of zoom, and make it travel away from Earth faster than light, we could see the past.


faster-than-light travel isn't exactly possible though.

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fiver
Posted on 07-24-16 05:41 PM Link | #74604
Nah, our current "developers" of the world are too focused on building more smart devices ;)

Though a smart telescope would be cool, but with a different name and uh, useful features
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StapleButter
Posted on 07-24-16 05:43 PM Link | #74606
let's not drift too far from our topic here though, the "rant about smart garbage" thread is over there

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MusiMasta
Posted on 07-24-16 05:45 PM Link | #74608
Posted by StapleButter
reminds me of something. If we could build a telescope with an infinite level of zoom, and make it travel away from Earth faster than light, we could see the past.


faster-than-light travel isn't exactly possible though.


My dad actually wrote a whole report about tachyon in college and how it could possibly be used to break the impossible...going faster than the speed of light, as tachyon is faster than photons (which are the particles that we see as light)

Dunno if its actually feasible, though.

Dunno about "smart" telescopes, but the new James Webb telescope is the successor to Hubble and can actually see all the way to the infrared zone (even closer to the supposed Big Bang) and it'll be interesting to see results from that.

And also, something random, but do you consider belief in science as a "belief"? I personally do, actually.




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fiver
Posted on 07-24-16 05:47 PM Link | #74610
yeah.

anyway, i personally think the old testament is quite hard to believe (i can't really get myself to believe stuff like noah's ark) however the new testament has some good bits of stuff that says "oh hey, there's a bit of evidence"

the new testament happened around the time of the Roman Empire. Yep, it happened ~2000 years ago (that was when jesus died, or so). So, these are semi-modern times. This stuff wouldn't have been documented if it didn't happen - it'd be extremely challenged by many more people than those who did challenge it way back then.

my point is this stuff couldn't have really been made up that much. it would be rejected by many, many more people, and nations would never have followed it.

or, at least in my opinion.
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StapleButter
Posted on 07-24-16 05:50 PM (rev. 2 of 07-24-16 05:51 PM) Link | #74612
Then again, you don't really know what truly happened back then. All you know is how the people of that era saw it.

Maybe it was some well-done magic tricks. Maybe it was extraterrestrial people.

People have always used religion to explain things they couldn't understand logically -- thunder was believed to be Zeus' anger, etc...


And nobody knows if the stories are real or if they're made up, like Greek mythology for example.

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MusiMasta
Posted on 07-24-16 05:52 PM Link | #74613
Well, there's that dimension of brainwashing that Yami brought up, powerful people (who were then considered son of God, etc) could proclaim, hey I saw angels! And their subjects would of course, follow the person in power. So really, only a few people could challenge it in the semi-old times of kingdoms.

Also, I learned from world history class that also, a lot of the stories in the bible, especially the old testament, are stories that were written down 1000s of years after they actually happened, so there could be retrojection and the person's own beliefs engraved in there.



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fiver
Posted on 07-24-16 05:55 PM Link | #74616
well, the problem is for those who believe in religion, is this:

the earth is definitely not the only place in existence with intelligent lifeform. these could have easily formed beliefs as well, and, let's say at the end of world, er, Buddhism is correct. well, then none of those other intelligent lifeforms had a valid religion.

maybe I'm just thinking to hard, oh well

at the end of the day I still stick by Christianity :P
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MusiMasta
Posted on 07-24-16 05:59 PM Link | #74618
yeah christianity is the most followed religion and sometimes it's easier just to go with the largest crowd.

and about intelligent lifeforms, there's some exciting stuff in space news. For example, there are the moons Enceladus and Europa, of which have an icy sort of crust and I think Enceladus even has spewing geysers of some sort. That's what leads some scientists to believe that there are actual living organisms under the surfaces of those moons, as above the icy crust, it's way too frigid.

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Marionumber1
Posted on 07-24-16 06:03 PM Link | #74620
Posted by xkitten
the new testament happened around the time of the Roman Empire. Yep, it happened ~2000 years ago (that was when jesus died, or so). So, these are semi-modern times. This stuff wouldn't have been documented if it didn't happen - it'd be extremely challenged by many more people than those who did challenge it way back then.

my point is this stuff couldn't have really been made up that much. it would be rejected by many, many more people, and nations would never have followed it.


It could have easily been made up. All it takes is writing a book and having a cult of liars claiming they witnessed the events, and nobody can prove them wrong.

StapleButter
Posted on 07-24-16 06:08 PM Link | #74623
Religion can also be used as a tool to keep people under control. It's generally pretty bad when it happens.


Anyway, I remember that guy who tried to say that his religion was "the right one". Yeah, why? "2000+ years of evidence" or whatever. Every other religion can pull the same arguments. Debates over which religion is the right one are pointless. They all exist and have their reasons for existing, neither is "better" or more legit than the others.

Which is why forcing a religion upon others is wrong and idiotic.


As much as "killing in the name of God". Haha what? The fucking Ten Commandments tell you not to kill, no matter what.

God can very well decide what is wrong and how to deal with it, and doesn't need idiots to do the job for Him.

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fiver
Posted on 07-24-16 06:10 PM Link | #74625
killing in the name of God?

wait, do you have any instances of an individual doing this? because that's, er, y'know. hypocritical.
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MusiMasta
Posted on 07-24-16 06:12 PM Link | #74626
Posted by Marionumber1
It could have easily been made up. All it takes is writing a book and having a cult of liars claiming they witnessed the events, and nobody can prove them wrong.


Actually, I don't know if "cult of liars" is the best word choice, as because the Bible is really just a collection of stories, so they can you know, be fiction. And yes, people can prove a cult of liars wrong, but the thing is, at least I think it's that the religion was promoted by a high figure at some time, and of course, (like people know that are sheep in the tech revolution), there were people that were like sheep to the ruler, believing absolutely everything the ruler says. But yeah, I can see how "cult of liars" would fit in, the ruler could easily form a secret agreement with other high trusted followers or other rulers to support the fact.

Posted by StapleButter
Religion can also be used as a tool to keep people under control. It's generally pretty bad when it happens.


Anyway, I remember that guy who tried to say that his religion was "the right one". Yeah, why? "2000+ years of evidence" or whatever. Every other religion can pull the same arguments. Debates over which religion is the right one are pointless. They all exist and have their reasons for existing, neither is "better" or more legit than the others.

Which is why forcing a religion upon others is wrong and idiotic.


As much as "killing in the name of God". Haha what? The fucking Ten Commandments tell you not to kill, no matter what.

God can very well decide what is wrong and how to deal with it, and doesn't need idiots to do the job for Him.


Yeah, those killings in the news make me cringe every single time, killing to prove a religion is right. Those Orlando killings...the guy said he was fighting in the name of God.

And "not to kill, no matter what", heh, the people who favored, the Cannanites, they killed a bunch of Egyptians through a plague, or as so said in the Bible.

And yeah, I completely agree, any religion can technically be correct, but again, the degree of brainwashing that this is the only correct one, can result in some terrible shit.

Posted by xkitten
killing in the name of God?

wait, do you have any instances of an individual doing this? because that's, er, y'know. hypocritical.

Orlando killing. Paris attacks (Staplebutter, was it scary?). Yep, a lot of mass attacks.

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Tahcryon
Posted on 07-24-16 06:12 PM Link | #74628
Posted by xkitten
killing in the name of God?

wait, do you have any instances of an individual doing this? because that's, er, y'know. hypocritical.

I hope you're joking?

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