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Main - Gaming - Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy (2) Appreciation Thread Hide post layouts | New reply

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MarioFanatic64
Posted on 05-22-15 11:27 AM Link | #60063
It's no secret that I'm a huge fan of 3D Mario games. I mean, "64" is part of my username. But I'm feeling down lately about Nintendo's direction with the 3D Mario games, with Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World effectively killing the good old-fashioned sandbox-collect-a-thons that were the earlier 3D Mario games to instead spam the basic game play of every 2D Mario ever. It's really had me feeling depressed that it'll be a very long time, or perhaps never again, that I can see the magic of the original 3D Mario games come to life with the technology that the future beholds. So I wanted to make a thread to memorialize these four original 3D Mario games. I'll start:

Super Mario 64 - This game started it all for me. As a kid I played the 2D Mario games- a lot. But when I got a Nintendo 64 one Christmas with a copy of this game my life truly changed forever. The third dimension opened up a million new ways to play Mario, and the world came to life for the first time. This was a game that didn't just involve mindless left-to-right, "complete a level and move on" game play. It gave Mario's world a hub, containing many large worlds and gave the world a sense of connection when the past and future of the Mario games would all be mostly disjointed and separate- it was real to me. There were no restrictions in game play- you could play through the game however you wanted to instead of how the game forced you to. If you wanted to, you had the freedom to just run around doing nothing- and even then you may find something interesting and progress. If I could express this game in one word, it would be... 'freedom'.

Super Mario Sunshine - I didn't get to play this one until quite a few years after it launched. And since it was my first new Mario game since Mario 64- I cherished the opportunity to have new worlds and challenges in the same basic format as Mario 64. What I really liked about Super Mario Sunshine wasn't it's game play- because I already loved that from Mario 64- it was how Super Mario 64 was modernized in a way that there was no overlap, and the game was completely new. And the large interconnected world became as real as it's been yet. Granted, the primary game play introductions with F.L.U.D.D. let the game down, and for that reason I harbored a bit of distaste towards Sunshine for a time. But it served me as a sign of what was to come in the future when Mario came back from his vacation in the next Mario game.

Super Mario Galaxy - I knew this title would be gold as soon as I heard of its existence. The way I saw it- it took the visual stylings of Super Mario Sunshine, brought it back to the simplicity of Super Mario 64 and put it in a classically Mario-styled version of outer space. By this point- 3D Mario games are like riding a bike to me. I jump back into the game to do what I do best- pursue Power Stars and explore the world, though this time it was the universe I was conquering. I found the level design to be the most fresh and exciting yet. It became apparent to me that the missions were very specific this time, and as a result, Galaxies changed significantly each time you choose a different mission so that you take a different but linear route. It emulated the same sense of exploration from Super Mario 64 but it was just an illusion. I still loved the game, but never felt a good reason to revisit any particular level- because I no longer had the freedom to explore it at my own pace- letting my imagination be my guide. But I still thoroughly enjoyed the ride while it lasted.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 - After all these years- hoping that a 3D Mario game would get a sequel and spending years knowing that it's just not Nintendo's style- only to be greeted with one of the best-made sequels I've ever played. Super Mario Galaxy 2 kept the more streamlined "illusion of exploration" that Super Mario Galaxy had, but I was expecting that. I couldn't believe that a whole new 3D Mario adventure was coming so soon- soon enough to be on the same console. I went into this game already as a master of it- and I still found myself being challenged and excited in ways that I hadn't experienced before. What particularly amazed me this time, was the sheer creativity of the levels and the game had an incredible amount of polish. I can't quite put my finger on why- but this game seemed to have something to represent everything that's come from Mario in the last 25 years before it- presented in the most modern way possible. This became my second favorite game- only following Super Mario 64, of course.

Now, it seems that the lifetime of these games has come to an abrupt end. But it doesn't have to be this way, does it? Who else wants a new 3D Mario that captures that same sense of environment and game play? I see many anti-3D Mario people arguing about what makes them inferior. And that just makes me sad. I, for one, hope that in the future, the 3D "collect-a-thon" platformer will triumphantly return. And when that day comes, I'll be there.

MercuryPenny
Posted on 05-22-15 02:52 PM Link | #60069
Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are superior to everything else period.

Sunshine has an awful difficulty curve that leaves you no room to get used to the new mechanics and SM64's camera just killed it for me. I just couldn't get into either but SMG1/2 were both freaking masterpieces. Say what you will about the latter being a clone of the first game, I just found it a ton of fun.

Also for some reason I could only get 104 stars in the first game and the game crashed at the intro cinematic to the final level, maybe it's because my Wii disk drive broke a while ago and I had to play it off USB...and I thought it was too easy after getting all stars in SMG2 so I probably would have dropped it again anyway. .-.

But yeah, SMG1/2 are among my favorite games, probably right up there with SM3DW. I hope that they'll have a spiritual successor to SMG at some point, but ultimately it was going to go this way because the games were getting progressively linear (far from a bad thing, mind you).

GreenThunder1337
Posted on 05-22-15 03:09 PM Link | #60071
I, for one, actually liked Super Mario 3D Land.

I was skeptical at first, true. It really does look bad, and the concept seems bad at first, but once you actually play it, it's really great!

Super Mario 3D World however, really does suck in all definitions. : /

It looks bad, the story's REALLY bad, and cat suits.
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3D Land is my favorite game, but I gotta say Super Mario Galaxy is a VERY close second.

The graphics, the concept, everything about this game is just awesome.

Now, I don't understand why you feel the loss of freedom. In all of the 3D games (3D Land included), I can always find new ways to clear the stage; finding shortcuts, using wall jumps, any new way to play.

3D Mario will never die. :)

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NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

MercuryPenny
Posted on 05-22-15 04:40 PM Link | #60074
Posted by GreenThunder1337
It looks bad, the story's REALLY bad, and cat suits.

>looks bad
>sm3dw
>http://images.nintendolife.com/news/2013/10/the_madness_that_is_super_mario_3d_worlds_multiplayer_mode/attachment/0/630x.jpg
>sm3dl
>http://www.slantmagazine.com/assets/games/supermario3dland_2.jpg
>literally looks the same
>looks bad

>the story's REALLY bad
>sm3dw
>not peach
>sm3dl
>literally the same plot as smw and every other mario game
>the story's REALLY bad

>cat suits
>tanooki can't fly
>can't turn into stone until the special world
>cat suits

>complaining about all that
>not champion's road
>not even complaining about linearity which is the most popular complaint

tbh i'm wondering if you actually played it >_>

Fruit Smasher
Posted on 05-22-15 06:40 PM Link | #60080
Sniff... Such a beautiful thread...

Anthe
Posted on 05-22-15 07:31 PM Link | #60083
Super Mario 3D Bland? Oh well, it was somewhat enjoyable but it felt like routine to me (sounds weird but that's how I experienced it every time I played it again). Maybe it takes a lot to impress me these days.

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Fruit Smasher
Posted on 05-22-15 07:42 PM Link | #60087
Posted by Anthe
Super Mario 3D Bland? Oh well, it was somewhat enjoyable but it felt like routine to me (sounds weird but that's how I experienced it every time I played it again). Maybe it takes a lot to impress me these days.


me too. i think Super mario 3d world is boring
3d land is OK.

Anthe
Posted on 05-22-15 07:55 PM Link | #60089
Super Mario 3D World has yet to be added to my collection. The demo I have played in a store once was fun to me. I liked the cat suit (thought it was fun and brought a smile to my face).

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GreenThunder1337
Posted on 05-22-15 11:18 PM (rev. 3 of 05-22-15 11:23 PM) Link | #60096
Posted by MercuryPenny
tbh i'm wondering if you actually played it >_>

I played the demo, and that (along with New Super Mario Bros. U and Sonic Lost World) was enough to convince me to NEVER buy a Wii U.

Posted by MercuryPenny
>not peach

If Peach doesn't get kidnapped, then it isn't a Mario game now is it?

This is all just my opinion though, no need to get so personal. O.o

____________________
Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

Anthe
Posted on 05-23-15 10:30 AM Link | #60110
If you're not enjoying the games on the Wii U I'm not sure what else you will enjoy. Sonic Lost World has been a bit of a disappointment for me, but it's not like you should base your entire opinion of a game console in two or three games.

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Kinnay
Posted on 05-23-15 12:15 PM Link | #60112
Posted by GreenThunder1337
Super Mario 3D World however, really does suck in all definitions. : /

It looks bad, the story's REALLY bad, and cat suits.

How dare you say that? Super Mario 3D World is a great game. It looks better than SM3DLand and the story has got an interesting touch. It still is a Mario game, even if you don't save Peach. You don't save anyone in Mario Kart, that doesn't mean it's not a Mario game, does it? While I would have preferred another powerup, the cat suit doesn't make the game suck in all definitions.

Anthe
Posted on 05-23-15 03:17 PM Link | #60114
To me it almost sounds sexist, actually.

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Fruit Smasher
Posted on 05-23-15 04:10 PM (rev. 3 of 05-23-15 04:13 PM) Link | #60116
Posted by Kinnay
How dare you say that? Super Mario 3D World is a great game. It looks better than SM3DLand and the story has got an interesting touch. It still is a Mario game, even if you don't save Peach. You don't save anyone in Mario Kart, that doesn't mean it's not a Mario game, does it? While I would have preferred another powerup, the cat suit doesn't make the game suck in all definitions.


Its boring... The goomba boot is rare, the level design is horrifying. Creativity is lacking in every way possible. The main feature in the game are clear tubes, right? They are so rare, that only 1 course in the entire game features clear pipes the way it should. Its the only course that features over 5. Cat suits shouldn't be limited. Multiplayer is terrible. Bosses suck so much. The story sucks even more. They couldn't have made the story like galaxy? If you actually look deep into the story, its not only saving peach (look at game theory BUT they are not the first to find the story. Its like fnaf in a way. )

MarioFanatic64
Posted on 05-24-15 02:56 AM (rev. 3 of 05-24-15 03:02 AM) Link | #60133
I'm not saying I don't like Super Mario 3D Land or Super Mario 3D World, but I do believe that by their very nature they are inferior to the "traditional" 3D Mario games. Here's why:

The 3D Mario games are well-known for being the only modern Mario platformer series to consistently bring in new ideas and game play. While sharing a basic format, Super Mario 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy are all radically different than any other Mario game in the Super Mario Main Series, and they tend to offer the fullest extent of what can be possible on the current generation console, so it's always a cutting edge game. But I can't say anything of the sort about 3D Land or 3D World. As far as game play goes, it's rather generic, just more of the same of what we've already seen before- and it doesn't do anything to push the boundaries, or even show off what the Wii U is capable of. It's just a simple round of "hey, jump over stuff and touch the flagpole, isn't this nostalgic?".

I'd like to talk about the New Super Mario Bros. games here for a moment. They became immensely popular for becoming a sequel series to the original 2D Mario quadrilogy. But they only existed to perpetuate the same game play, and instead of really modernizing 2D platforming it only emulated the older Mario games. The best thing that came from this series was the multiplayer functionality- which is broken as hell. Now when it comes to Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World, they're basically a copy of the New Super Mario Bros. games, only taking place in a 3D environment that due to the nature of the game play just isn't needed. The purpose of a 3D environment is to be able to travel more ways than one- and it also allows environments to become larger and more detailed as the technology allows it, and 3D Land and 3D World killed that purpose.

If this had been an isolated incident, I would really love Super Mario 3D World. But having two 3D games of the same nature when they were already based on a series of 4 and a half other games which was basically an attempt to revive a bunch of games from the 80's just spoiled the broth. Nintendo's been holding on to Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World for so long that over half the Mario games that came out after it are still trying to recapture it. They're obsolete by nature.

MercuryPenny
Posted on 05-24-15 05:31 PM (rev. 2 of 05-24-15 05:32 PM) Link | #60143
Posted by Somebody Else
Its boring... The goomba boot is rare, the level design is horrifying. Creativity is lacking in every way possible. The main feature in the game are clear tubes, right? They are so rare, that only 1 course in the entire game features clear pipes the way it should. Its the only course that features over
5. Cat suits shouldn't be limited. Multiplayer is terrible. Bosses suck so much. The story sucks even more. They couldn't have made the story like galaxy? If you actually look deep into the story, its not only saving peach (look at game theory BUT they are not the first to find the story. Its like fnaf in a way. )

Think you can do so much better? Alright, why don't you start working on your own "classic mario in 3d" game, with your own ideas, with your own programming abilities and coding your own engine, with your own high quality models that apparently you can do because you're so superior to Nintendo's game design team, along with coming up with your own ideas for new enemies and obstacles while applying them well, all without the luxury of being able to put it on hiatus all the time like you do here, and still come out with something as high quality as Nintendo's games.

Don't think you can do it? Then stop complaining about the level design.

Posted by MarioFanatic64
blah blah blah

They're just finding more value in previous assets. It's the same reason why we hack their games - we think their assets are great, so we do more stuff with them. It shouldn't be a problem because as ROM hackers we do the exact same thing when we reuse Nintendo's various games for our own designs.

NSMB sucks though. They should really come up with new music for them instead of using NSMBW's music over and over again.

And honestly...I don't see the appeal towards boring collectathons where you go around landscapes randomly trying to find what you're supposed to do, or where that last star is, or where that last red coin is, or where you're supposed to reach that cannon. I'd prefer linear romps over that any time, and SMG did a linear 3D platformer just perfectly.

SMG1/2 will always have the little special place in my heart, and I honestly hope they'll make something like it when the next 3D Mario game comes out. I don't want to wander around a level for 30-60 minutes 8 times, but I don't really want to play the same thing 50 times with minor differences either.

SM3DW is fun for a while, but it's not without its flaws. The game can quickly turn into a collectathon if you go for world crown, because you've got over 300 green stars and over 100 stamps to collect in nearly every level in the game. And once you unlock world crown you've got...an atrocious, near Kaizo level, a horrible marathon level and an actually quite fun perspective-puzzle level. Definitely the most obvious flaws are in these 3 levels.

But it's far from horrible by any means, and it doesn't spill the end of the franchise or stagnation of it. Nintendo's just finding creative ways to implement old ideas, which I do not fault by any means, especially since they still have a ways to go before the idea behind SM3DW becomes stale and overused (and I seriously doubt that they'll take it any further...they only had 2 SMG games).

Fruit Smasher
Posted on 05-24-15 06:09 PM Link | #60146
Posted by MercuryPenny
Think you can do so much better? Alright, why don't you start working on your own "classic mario in 3d" game, with your own ideas, with your own programming abilities and coding your own engine, with your own high quality models that apparently you can do because you're so superior to Nintendo's game design team, along with coming up with your own ideas for new enemies and obstacles while applying them well, all without the luxury of being able to put it on hiatus all the time like you do here, and still come out with something as high quality as Nintendo's games.

Don't think you can do it? Then stop complaining about the level design.



Fine, ill start treating Sonic 06, and New super mario bros 2 as Perfect games, all because you feel bad for them. Seriously, Why dont you tweet out Somecallmejon, and tell him to make sure when he reviews another game, to say that its perfect.

GreenThunder1337
Posted on 05-24-15 06:16 PM Link | #60147
The main problem I have with the NSMB and SM3D series is that Nintendo just keeps milking them.

NSMB would've been fine if it had stopped at Wii or AT LEAST 3DS, but no, they just gotta keep releasing game, after game, after overdrawn game New Super Luigi U.

New Super Mario Bros. 7DS anybody? XD

As for SM3D, I just know that this is going to drag on just like NSMB.

____________________
Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511

Fruit Smasher
Posted on 05-24-15 06:25 PM Link | #60150
Posted by GreenThunder1337
The main problem I have with the NSMB and SM3D series is that Nintendo just keeps milking them.

NSMB would've been fine if it had stopped at Wii or AT LEAST 3DS, but no, they just gotta keep releasing game, after game, after overdrawn game New Super Luigi U.

New Super Mario Bros. 7DS anybody? XD

As for SM3D, I just know that this is going to drag on just like NSMB.


NSMB would have been fine if they introduced new concepts and mechanics like NSMBDS

MercuryPenny
Posted on 05-24-15 07:29 PM (rev. 2 of 05-24-15 07:30 PM) Link | #60153
Posted by Somebody Else
Fine, ill start treating Sonic 06, and New super mario bros 2 as Perfect games

Alright, I'll start treating SMG like it's a pile of crap because you hate a game I like for minor nitpicky reasons.

As for SM3D, I just know that this is going to drag on just like NSMB.

As I've already said, do you really have such a low opinion on Nintendo that you expect them to not move on to another idea after SM3DW?

GreenThunder1337
Posted on 05-24-15 07:33 PM Link | #60154
Posted by MercuryPenny
do you really have such a low opinion on Nintendo that you expect them to not move on to another idea after SM3DW?

Yes.


____________________
Kuribo64 / NSMBHD / MMM

NNID: GreenThunder1337
3DS FC: 1521 - 5979 - 1511
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Main - Gaming - Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy (2) Appreciation Thread Hide post layouts | New reply

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