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SGC
Posted on 05-06-16 04:15 PM (rev. 2 of 05-06-16 04:20 PM) Link | #70440
Posted by StapleButter
I'm not a fan of the "three strike system" or rigid systems that deal with everyone in the same way. Or machine-like moderation. Every user is a different case and has to be dealt with in a different way.


I also save a lot of time with some lamers that show they aren't going to improve. Some people don't like that kind of fast bans, but it saves a lot of time.


I can see where you're coming from, but the 3 Strike system is more effective in my opinion.
We used a 100 Point Warning system before we switched Forum Software, now it's a 3 Strike System, this we find this to be more effective towards the users who tend to break the Terms of Service a lot. If you get banned on DSHack, you're banned for good. (Unless you get framed, or you've been wrongfully accused, and we realize our mistake).

____________________
MKDS Hacking & Modding Discord:
https://discordapp.com/invite/CAktUYP

Baby Luigi
Posted on 05-06-16 04:17 PM Link | #70441
I think in MarioWiki, there's at least one permabanned user who rerigged at least twice and got away with it. However, he's making some good contributions so I really don't want to point out that it could be this one guy who got permabanned.

Something doesn't feel right when a rerigged user making a lot of good contributions get banned because they were simply a sockpuppet of a perma'd one instead of being in really bad faith.

SGC
Posted on 05-06-16 04:25 PM (rev. 2 of 05-06-16 04:27 PM) Link | #70443
Posted by Baby Luigi
I think in MarioWiki, there's at least one permabanned user who rerigged at least twice and got away with it. However, he's making some good contributions so I really don't want to point out that it could be this one guy who got permabanned.

Something doesn't feel right when a rerigged user making a lot of good contributions get banned because they were simply a sockpuppet of a perma'd one instead of being in really bad faith.

I agree, when a user that has noticeably improved, they deserve a second chance. But I think think they should be closely watched, considering that they were banned before.

____________________
MKDS Hacking & Modding Discord:
https://discordapp.com/invite/CAktUYP

Baby Luigi
Posted on 05-06-16 04:30 PM Link | #70444
I patrol the recent changes frequently and I don't think that user has any bad faith at all, he's just a bit derpy.

I can tell it's him mostly because of his voting style and what he writes in the edit summaries.

Arisotura
Posted on 05-06-16 04:41 PM Link | #70445
Posted by supergamecube
I can see where you're coming from, but the 3 Strike system is more effective in my opinion.
We used a 100 Point Warning system before we switched Forum Software, now it's a 3 Strike System, this we find this to be more effective towards the users who tend to break the Terms of Service a lot. If you get banned on DSHack, you're banned for good. (Unless you get framed, or you've been wrongfully accused, and we realize our mistake).

we just don't use a fixed system

we keep track of problematic users in a special forum, their recent history affects the decisions taken (warning/ban)

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Yami
Posted on 05-06-16 04:44 PM Link | #70446
Just to prevent a Quote Tower (because I should respond to a lot of Posts), I figured it'd be better to not Quote anyone here to give an answer.

Baby Luigi, thanks for this complement, it actually moved me.

SGC, sometimes I feel like you're my personal PR Channel, lol.
But just to add, if you get a Strike with our 3 Strikes System, and don't get Banned within 6 months, your Strike will automatically expire.

Staple, you do realise our Ban System is different from yours, right?
It's easier to get Banned here than on Kuribo64 (depending on the person, as you already said), but at the same time, it's easier to get Unbanned here as well.
As SGC already said, once you're Banned at our side, you're Banned for good, no apology will change that, unless you have proved to have changed indeed.
Both systems have their good and bad sides, I'm not going to say which one is better, because there is no such a thing as "the ultimate system".

Arisotura
Posted on 05-06-16 04:47 PM Link | #70448
Posted by Yami
Staple, you do realise our Ban System is different from yours, right?
It's easier to get Banned here than on Kuribo64 (depending on the person, as you already said), but at the same time, it's easier to get Unbanned here as well.
As SGC already said, once you're Banned at our side, you're Banned for good, no apology will change that, unless you have proved to have changed indeed.
Both systems have their good and bad sides, I'm not going to say which one is better, because there is no such a thing as "the ultimate system".

not sure what you mean there, you seem to contradict yourself unless you misworded it

but here, if you can prove that you have changed, it's easy to get unbanned


Posted by Yami
Just to prevent a Quote Tower (because I should respond to a lot of Posts), I figured it'd be better to not Quote anyone here to give an answer.

go ahead and quote, nested quotes are automatically removed when you quote

just avoid quoting the post right above yours unless you're also quoting other posts

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Yami
Posted on 05-06-16 04:53 PM Link | #70450
Posted by StapleButter
go ahead and quote, nested quotes are automatically removed when you quote

just avoid quoting the post right above yours unless you're also quoting other posts

Not what I meant.
What you say is a Quote Pyramid, while I said Quote Tower (as in, about 20+ separate Quotes in a single Post).

TheKoopaKingdom
Posted on 05-06-16 04:56 PM Link | #70451
See: StapleButter's Ask Thread
[thumbnail]

____________________
Website | Twitter


Arisotura
Posted on 05-06-16 05:10 PM Link | #70453
oh well, no problem with that as long as you only keep the relevant parts of the posts

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 05-06-16 06:16 PM (rev. 2 of 05-06-16 06:16 PM) Link | #70468
I don't agree with how MarioWiki handles its bans either. Especially the perma-bans. To them, it doesn't matter how good you are, if you screw up a few times, you'll eventually get perma-banned. It's stupid. Also, hardly anyone ever gets promoted to mod status there and there is no transparency on who gets it and who doesn't. It sucks. I think I had maturity issues back then, but I had cleaned it up, and I'm a major contributor to the wiki, but asking about that kind of stuff, according to them, is a nonnegotiable issue. I like those people, but I fully disagree with how they handle perma-bans on otherwise good faith users. They rarely give anyone a second chance. Perma-bans should be rare and reserved for actively malicious users, not immature users or users that screw up from time to time.

I don't even agree with how they handle "admin" powers there. They decided to keep a dead admin powers rather than retiring her, so they can "honor" her but at the same time, we're supposed to be emphasizing that wiki tools are not a medal and nothing special and don't grant users any additional "say" in things. You're not actually an "admin" in wikis, you just have a bigger toolbox and can edit the wiki in different ways. MarioWiki is glamorizing these tools, and it's even more problematic that there is no transparency on the decisions made to promote people.

Arisotura
Posted on 05-06-16 06:19 PM Link | #70469
sounds like terrible management


at the same time, how big is the site, and how big is the staff?

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Baby Luigi
Posted on 05-06-16 06:26 PM (rev. 2 of 05-06-16 06:27 PM) Link | #70470
The site has 17,074 articles. We get an average of than 500 edits per day. The front page weekly polls typically get more than 1000 votes a week. I don't know where I can get the viewing statistics, but it should be a lot.

The staff is composed of 13 people, 4-5 which aren't even that active (and one of them is dead, yet still listed as a staff member)

Arisotura
Posted on 05-06-16 06:28 PM Link | #70471
staff communication can get tricky with so many people, but not impossible, and not an excuse for making it completely opaque

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Baby Luigi
Posted on 05-06-16 06:29 PM (rev. 2 of 05-06-16 06:29 PM) Link | #70472
I only think the reason they made it nonnegotiable is, y'know, like other forums such as here, derps asking for power and stuff when they're clearly not qualified. They don't want to bother with that, which is completely understandable.

Arisotura
Posted on 05-06-16 06:34 PM Link | #70473
not a bad thing, generally letting people apply is a bad idea (every time I did that, I ended up with crapo users)


it's better to spot good users and keep them in a sort of list for potential future promotions

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd

Baby Luigi
Posted on 05-06-16 06:38 PM Link | #70474
Yeah I completely agree with. But despite how long I worked at MarioWiki, I just wondered if I had ever been considered. The most I got was autopatrolled, meaning my edits are automatically marked as patrolled but that's really it.

I don't want power, I just want to help out. I like to stop vandals on their tracks before they flood the recent changes with their horrible edits. I'd like to participate in their staff discussions first and foremost as well. I'd like to clean up deletions of images and articles.

I think the only thing holding me back is my gruff attitude but I really can't help it.

LeftyGreenMario
Posted on 05-06-16 06:41 PM Link | #70475
Hm.

I have 24,696 edits, been there since 2009 and people know me VERY well and I've posted intelligent-sounding crap like this.

Hmmmm.
Posted by http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Administrators
Administrators/Sysops are users who have a proven track record of high-quality edits and responsible, mature behaviour, and have had performance- and security-based restrictions on several features lifted because they seemed like hardworking and trustworthy folks.


We have 10 admins. One who is dead (Walkazo). As far as I know, Glowsquid, Tucayo, L151, Toa 95 do make a decent amount of contributions. The rest, they just sit there and take admin-only requests. Some admin-only requests, however, are wiki maintenance, I mean busy wiki maintenance, and are overall more valuable than mods on a forum. Still, they don't seem that busy to me. Only Tucayo really participates in wiki-related discussions, but it wasn't as often as Walkazo. Glowsquid sometimes does, but not very often. That makes it four admins. Porplemontage seems really busy though, managing several other wikis. so I'll give him a pass.

We have a whopping three Patrollers, users who are lower-ranked than sysops. Only two really contribute Yoshi876 and RandomYoshi (though RandomYoshi mainly contributes to the Wiki newspaper). The other mostly gives out Wiki newspaper warnings, if he even contributes anything else.

The last time anyone new got promoted was Yoshi876, and it's from 22 March 2014. If I recall correctly, RandomYoshi isn't new, just inactive at one point, and he got promoted to patroller in 13 December 2015 when he got active again.

I want a bigger toolbox too. I thought I convinced them that I clearly care about the place, but I'm afraid they are dwelling on my personal flaws. Same goes for Time Turner, another active user. I know for sure he was getting held back BECAUSE of his attitude, but he's honestly not that bad.

Baby Luigi
Posted on 05-06-16 06:46 PM Link | #70476
As StapleButter said, bigger staff means it's more difficult to talk to each other. Smaller staff is easier to manage than a bigger one; there are several advantages to having a small staff.

Still, I think MarioWiki does need more staff members. I don't really care if it's me or not, if it means vandals get stopped sooner and deletions happen quicker, then I'm all in for it.

Who am I to say though, since I wasn't an admin anywhere :P My twin is a bureaucrat in Nookipedia but to be fair, that wiki isn't as popular as MarioWiki.

Arisotura
Posted on 05-06-16 06:50 PM Link | #70477
you also need easy cleanup tools to deal with that, akin to the lamer nuke we have here and at RVL


have you ever wondered why RVL gets a lot less trolls than before?

____________________
NSMBHD - Kafuka - Jul
melonDS the most fruity DS emulator there is

zafkflzdasd
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Main - General Chat - Kuribo64 Town Square New reply

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